Household Power – How It Works

Posted on July 12, 2010 by George B.

There are a lot of folks that think it terms of two hot legs of power coming into your home and they often refer to them as different phases. This can lead to misunderstanding of how things work and how we wire our generators off gird or as backup in our homes.

We all know about three phase power, and this may be where the trouble starts, some might think that it is two of the three phases delivered into our homes. Make a note that in three phase service, the phases are 120 degrees apart.

Now, let’s look at how the typical home in North America is wired.

Above: Typical Peg Pole Transformer

If you live in an older neighborhood, your house may be served by overhead wire and you can follow the three leads from your breaker box, up thru the power meter, to the mast, and out onto the street where it likely terminates to a round transformer mounted on a pole. If you look closely, you can see that the input to this transformer is fed by only one hot lead, and a neutral tied to ground. This means you have a single phase feeding your home.

What is important to note is the two hot leads are derived from this single phase and they are (single phase service). Since the secondary side of the transformer is center tapped, we can use the center tap (often called our neutral) to divide the voltage in half.

Going back to your breaker box, you will note that these two hot leads run down both sides of your power box, and you will see where the neutral terminates as well. The designers of the breaker box were clever and made the slots for breakers to be powered by the different hot leads. Example “all odd breakers might be powered by the red hot lead, and all even by the black hot lead”. With this scheme, when you plug in a 240 VAC double breaker, you automatically get both hot leads. In addition, as the electrician plugs in 120VAC breakers from top to bottom the loads are distributed across the two hot leads.

With this view of commercial power, we can revisit the PMG pages and see a striking similarity to what comes out of the transformer to our homes and what comes out of the SINGLE Phase generator, this may help you understand why we call it a single phase generator, and why we are better off NOT referring to these hot leads as different phases. It also helps you visualize how to wire in a transfer switch, and to note the similarities between commercial power and the output of the PMG.

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A Generator Designed for Hurricane Service – and more!

Posted on July 12, 2010 by George B.

It’s here! Hurricane season, happens once a year.

I’ve had the privilege of swapping notes and information with folks in Hurricane country for years. I’ve got pictures of wives KISSING their husband’s Generators sets, and stories of unbearable heat after the storm with no fresh water, no power, and no fuel.

We learn a lot of things from these outages, but some of the basics are:

Hardware Store Generators are made to compete in the market place, and many don’t need to run even 100 hours to satisfy 99% of customer’s expectations! If the manufacturer doesn’t do a good job of so called value engineering, he’s out of business.

You might need lots more than that in the first storm.

Another thing people learn the hard way is what it’s like to have too big of generator, you blaze through all of your fuel in a few days, and them sit with no power just like everybody else. Run a small AC unit, cool one room, conserve fuel, cook with the microwave versus the stove top. Manage loads, don’t buy a generator big enough to run the whole house unless you have a lot of fuel on site, and you KNOW when the power will return. Storm in Guam was memorable for many, some were three months without power.

Many times folks have no idea how poorly gasoline keeps, diesel is a fuel with a lot of energy and if you learn the simple methods to keep water out of it, it’ll keep on site for many years. You can’t wait till the storm strikes to buy fuel. If there’s no commercial power at the pump, they can’t pump you more.

Here’s a generator designed for Hurricane service and more! This is one that won’t break in the middle of your outage!

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The Future of Slow Speed Power (Combined Heat and Power)

Posted on July 12, 2010 by George B.

Comparative notes on cause and effects and other musings, George’s typical rambling style, if you can’t stand it, scroll down for important news on how to get your CHP power plant running now.

If I were to design a Trojan Horse to leave at the gate of an enemy nation, it would look exactly like the EPA. If you do a few searches, you will note that the EPA is perfectly designed to be sued for not doing something as well as for doing it.  The EPA is normally in court with those who oppose and those who support their proposed actions, and yes there is plenty of room to argue who really creates EPA rules, it may be those entities who have the deepest pockets for court battles.  It reminds me of the age old practice of blood letting, if the patient doesn’t get better, let some more blood and keep doing it till he gets better. the patient of course is the nation and it’s economy, and the blood is money needlessly squandered. Has the EPA even done anything right? certainly, but it may become the ballast that helps sink our boat.

We look at large Corporations like Caterpillar who understand that ANY effort to meet emissions is only temporary. The EPA can decide to ‘ratchet up’ the emission standards and render all R&D investments worthless. As we look on; extremely well funded companies like Cat drop out, then we see some small time importers in our community with few funds discussing in some DIYer forum how we need to play the EPA’s game and figure out how to meet their emissions standards, how realistic is that idea?  Here is where CHP will likely come to our rescue. We have all the room in the world to create a proper emissions system in a stationary combined heat and power plant, and if we measure emissions against all work done, we shine like a new Penney!

No small business owner in their right mind will invest in emission controls for a simple compact power plant because you will not likely have the money or the time (a sliding window) to recover your investment. It will get far more complicated, look at the IRS tax codes, no two IRS agents would fill out the forms the same way EVEN when calculating the taxes for a simple small engine shop. We all understand that the IRS tax code is nothing more than a mill stone around the neck of all Americans assuring that our GNP is crippled as compared to a country with a simple flat tax. Our tax codes assure that we spend a good percentage of our earnings on foolish calculations while others are allow to focus on contributing to the GNP.

If we study what the EPA is adding in the way of content to their verbose rules and regulations, we’ll expect them to match the IRS in verbosity and complexity in a few years. As insane as Cap and Trade is, there are those who don’t understand that it WILL trump most law and literally put an end to State’s rights, our State representatives, or at least ones as dumb as our own Patty Murray in Washington State will never understand what they surrender until after they give our rights away. Patty openly admits that she votes with her heart, and people like her are little more than ‘willing dupes’ for their party.  For you that follow the transfer of power from the States to the Feds, the Clean Air Act put an end to State authority of stationary engines, certainly they don’t cross state lines, but your State Reps agreed to give up their right to approve of what our Agriculture people could use even for a seldom run back up pump for irrigation water! Some Farmers are faced with replacing pumps that have served them well for 40 years, they are faced with paying high prices for junk that won’t live a fraction of the time. Matters not that these stand by pumps were seldom used (they backed up electric pumps in case commercial power failed) and contributed near nothing to the emissions… they of course are now non conforming according to the EPA.

Play the EPA’s game? Yes, but the only field left to play on is in combined heat and power, roll your own, and do your own research.. Do it legal, there’s room to do so..

Following relates to our past and present DIYer efforts to design, construct, research, and operate clean and efficient power plants.

I’m sure there are some who disagree with my observations, but I think many who have lived as long as I have will agree. I am really unhappy with the EPA and CARB, in my opinion they have thrown out the baby with the bath water by banning the Lister Type Slow Speeds, these engines work well if not best for burning SVO and transesterified veggie oils. Some think that Bio Fuels run well in any diesel engine, but this isn’t the case. I suggest if there were no problems, then GM and other makers would not limit the use of biofuel to 5 percent or less as per warranty. Why does the EPA force us to pass emissions on petrol diesel when we build a power plant designed to run on SVO?

There are rules on the EPA books for those of us who want to play legal, and I suggest that all of us look into the provisions in the EPA rules to do research in Combined Heat and Power. At the heart of our DIYer movement ARE a good many people who are excellent record keepers, many of us have better educations and higher degrees than those who are doing research in universities and in the emissions labs of well known engine builders. Our community has superior resources as compared to any company I know of. We know our Ultra Green Friends, (UGFs) like the idea of combined heat and Power, many of these people couldn’t add together two improper fractions, but they vote, and their support is important.

There are a number of provisions in the EPA rules and laws, and I think it is important that we make use of all of them in order to advance small and practical combined heat and power plants. We can argue about our future, but many of us know the grid is outdated and that there may not be enough money or support to modernize it. Large power plants seem to have fallen out of favor, it doesn’t matter how clean they are, even natural gas production is being blocked in places like Montana and Wyoming for every kind of reason. Furthermore, CAP and Trade will likely pass (eventually). This will punish all the power companies that made huge investments in creating clean low emission plants, yes… they too will be making CO2 and will pay a penality. I think this will be similar to what we’ve seen the Government do here recently with the economy, they’ve fired up the printing presses lowered the interest rates and effectively stolen any opportunity for a retired person or a pension fund to make any interest off their capitol or savings. Few American seem to be able to follow the cause and effect, and realize that our elected officials are effectively punishing the most responsible behavior of WALL STREET and its citizens. the Ant gets screwed, the grasshopper gets a free holiday. Think about who lowered the interest rates so insanely low, Wall Street? No…, it was our elected officials who only seem to worry about the moment. Many people are now trapped in a house that may never be worth what they paid for it and the root cause of this is our Government made money so cheap to borrow and so plentiful that Americans got into bidding wars and drove the prices of housing insanely high. People like Barney Frank told us this was a good thing, that the average man now had a piece of the American Dream, how obtuse!  So how will these nuts we elected weasel out of this mess? They will again make it worse by inflating the Dollar to the point where you can’t buy a dammed thing with it, that’s how. soon they’ll have the minimum wage at about $85 an hour, and the Grasshopper will be able to pay off his house. Of course the Ant who was foolish enough to invest in America gets screwed, and generations to follow will remember the lesson, don’t save dollars, invest in another currency or buy gold.

I want to mention another provision in the EPA rules (fluid and ever changing). You are allowed to build you own engine as per a hobby, but there are limitations as to how it is run, and why. When I read the provision, I’m not sure how much tinkering you are allowed to do  in order to optimize your machine, and I think it would be considered reasonable to tinker for some time to get it just right. Isn’t that exactly what most of  us do everyday with our experimental power plants?

Yes, there are others who are using gasifies as a primary or secondary fuel, and many might not realize that there have been kits to convert a lot of oil field engines from oil to well head gas as many had this free fuel available. This has been the case for about 100 years. Not much left to invent in gasifiiers, study what was done during WWII.

So here is the news, there are now Air Compressors available from India, these have been in use there since 1950 or maybe even earlier. These units are tough, and live extremely long lives in shops like auto body, and since they are water cooled, they have the potential to provide a shop with hot water in the bath room, and break room WHEN they are run long hours a day. The water cooling >CAN< increase efficiency as well, as it can allow for a denser air charge than an air cooled unit.

Since we are allowed to build our own engines, converting an Indian air compressor into an engine may be a great choice for the experimenter/ researcher. The critical part IS to follow all Federal and State laws, even if you think they are roadblocks to further development to clean burning small power plants.

Before I share more, I want to mention Lovson, they have developed a variant of the Lister type that has won the contest in Fiji for longevity! Fiji is very much third world, if you want fuel, you buy it at a depot in 55 gallon drums, it is expensive, and efficient engines are in demand there. Over the past years, Fiji has put to work all kinds of Indian and Chinese made engines, and Lovson’s LG6 is one of the few engines farmers are asking for, it’s a sad note, but many small Chinese horizontals failed in service too quickly to offer any return on investment. Other Lister Types lost timing gears and experienced other problems we are familiar with. The LG6 is typically running 6000 or more hours with oil changes every other week when running 8 or so hours a day. Many are used to pump water, others for small generator use.

For this reason, the LG6-8  was targeted as the first Air Compressor readied for export. There will be others who want a Lister CS type, and they can be ordered. What Lovson has done is create a DVD showing the simple steps in conversion. The conversion kit (LG6 selected parts kit). In this kit are all the parts required to build your engine, the DVD shows every step in fitting these parts.

What DIYers need realize is there are folks out there that would without a doubt cross thread a spark plug in their lawn mower if they knew where it was and attempted to change it! The CHP build is best left to those with hands on experience, and one of the typical traits of DIYers is they often forget how mechanically challenged community organizers, and some office workers are. Don’t encourage them to do a conversion!

With all of this said, we’ll soon see folks out there claiming they invented this idea or that idea, but if we look to the past, there are few things not already done. If we look at the 1880s and forward in America and the UK, we’ll see that they had very well designed and fairly efficient combined heat and power plants, many (if not most) factories had their own power plants and engineers to run them, elaborate heat exchangers, and more. Maybe we can use modern alloys and electrical controls to do a little better?

Here’s what I expect in the future:

The dollar is growing weaker by the day against the Indian currency, you want something from there, order it now, soon your dollar will only buy half what it does now, durable goods might appreciate greatly.

Our government has gone out if it’s way to punish those who invested in the US Dollar, any savings you have will be devalued greatly over the next few years. Those who are less dependent and out of debt will find life easier, our young people think Europe has the answer, little do they know that it is ready to collapse under the weight of socialism. Buy now, or pay twice as much soon!

Remember:  Don’t break the law, but do become active in CHP research and do it soon!

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Combined Heat and Power – Lovson Air Compressor

Posted on July 12, 2010 by George B.

Is this the basis from which you can build a legal CHP power plant? You be the judge….

If you are making the time to read this, you likely know that combined heat and power WAS the standard in industry before the UK and America were electrified. Companies that produced machines and other durable goods often had CHP built into their factories, and many were elaborate and well thought out. Many of these plants were still functioning and in good shape when they were turned down and there are now efforts in UK and America to preserve some of this amazingly well engineered equipment.

As we look to the future, there is a lot of interest in distributed power generation, there’s a vision that small power plants could be established on and off the grid and they could have multiple power inputs as well, Wind, Solar, Bio Fueled or Natural Gas low emission engines running dynamos, and of course hydro. In places like Montana and Wyoming, there are billions of cubic feet of clean natural gas waiting to take the place of fuels that create more emissions. Is it possible that we can generate power at the well head and put it onto the grid versus build pipe lines to bring it to the markets and power plants?

As for us DIYers and Off Griders, we have always been interested in small power generation for various reasons, and these power plants are part of our focus.

I’m currently looking at one engine that LOVSON Markets, they refer to it as a LG6 or LG8, others will know th design as the GM90, this one capable of close to 6KW at the shaft.  If we reclaim waste heat from the coolant and exhaust, this could be a good choice for small power CHP. The engine looks well suited for spark conversion but what draws my attention to this engine is reports from the third world that this variant is delivering great fuel economy and longevity. Most noteworthy, the engine is delivered clean, and there’s been a lot of engines that have already racked up 6000 or more hours with no break downs.

I have used JB Shah as a source of information for the history of Indian engine building and I have found him to be one of the best sources in all of India to run down components and more. One impressive feat was JB Shah arranged to have custom bearing shells made for our DIYer CHP experiments group, and I can tell you that no other contact there seemed to have a clue how to get it done. JB set up the deal and had them sent to us right away.

With all said, the LG engine is one of the engines I’d consider for CHP as it will likely outlive other small diesels and is designed to rebuild in place. This engine differs from the  from the Standard CS type, and you should note that many parts are not interchangeable, so consider stocking the unique parts, or knowing who stocks them. the engine does use a DI head and piston, and there are claims of about 10% more efficiency and I have heard reports that these engines are favored at higher elevations as they make more power. there are a number of parts that interchange, the idler shaft is a standard part, I fitted a standard ring in the bore, and the ring gap looked correct. the head gasket is different than a standard CS, intake and exhaust fittings are standard, the idler gear is smaller, there is a piston pump that assures oil pressure to the all important crank pin, and this may cure the problems we’ve seen in the Standard clones with what looks like an oil film break down on the upper crankpin shell >possibly< caused by the position of the oil feed hole and the fact it’s right in the middle of the highest load area of the upper shell?

You may have read that the LG has been used as an Air Compressor and that these are legal to import. There is also a selected parts kit that can be ordered to convert this engine to a diesel engine. Should you decide to construct a combined Heat and power plant to be run on biofuel, you’ll need to research present EPA law and make sure you fully comply, I hope to share more information on this soon, as I hear the EPA is working with researchers and those who construct CHP plants.

There are many ways to design a power plant, but careful work to identify your peak power need can help you design the right plant for your needs, if you run less RPM (within the design limits of the engine) you can load these power strokes to a higher percentage of load and in theory raise the overall efficiency of your power plant and lower emissions. Currently, there are over the road engines that are burning more fuel in order to produce less emissions in certain categories of emissions. A study of the pre and post injections made in modern diesels could be an interesting study, I have been told that the maximum amount of work can be done for the least amount of fuel using one injection per cycle, and for those who believe that real and total emissions has everything to do with burning less fuel, this causes us to scratch our heads. We live in a time when political science and propaganda are more powerful than hard sciences, so what to believe?

Particle size in emissions is another interesting topic, some suggest that higher emissions standards in diesels has forced the use of higher injection pressures that are partially responsible for creating a smaller soot particles that is far more a health hazard. What ever the case, we have room in the stationary CHP plant to devote as much room as necessary to trapping these partials.

As for our first prototype, we may not run it for some time, our first assessments have everything to do with cost and getting it down where there is a chance for some kind of return on investment, those who recognize the huge economies of scale the power company has will be more motivated by backup potential or off grid potential, the pursuit of getting the highest efficiency and lowest emissions possible through experimentation is a popular goal in our DIYer and CHP experimenter groups.

We received the Lovson Air compressor and noted the shipping box was constructed of metal and composite materials to assure there was no wood products full of bugs or pests that customs or Agriculture people would stop the import of. What I received was a crate designed to take a direct hit by a nuke and survive! Overkill and expensive to build, there’s about 45 feet of heavy angle iron used in the crate frame! And then dozens of nicely plated nuts and bolts to hang the composite panels, the engine is bolted to two metal skids that bolts to the fully welded and rust proofed crate frame. I think an American outfit would charge a fortune for the crate alone! The point? We need to help India get the cost of the crate down, but in order to do that, we need to know a lot about customs and how they might inspect a container load, or a single crate.

Above: Here’s a mount I’ve found works well with the Utterpower PMGs

the frame is built like a ladder using thick wall materials and fully welding top bottom and sides. The hinge plate is sued because we’ve found the PMGs run very well on them, and one can use a tension spring for proper tension, and also pull the rod from the hinge for quickest removal of the head to gain access to engine door for rebuild or other maintenance.

Above: Utterpower 3KW continuous rated PMG can easily crank out 4.2 KW. The hinge plate makes removing the generator from the frame a 30 second operation, just pull the rod, it’s also easy to ‘fab up’ with a wire feed welder.

Above: Most folks who run CHP units for efficiency establish accurate timing marks. this done by finding .005″ either side of TDC and then finding the middle. The pointer is temporary, permanent marks will be transferred to the other flywheel when done.

Above:  Here’s a neat laser level with a fairly accurate digital ‘degree’ wheel built in. Once you have TDC, tape a device like this on firmly and close to ‘Zero” degrees, then simply push the button to zero, and then turn the wheel to find your marks. I like to establish TDC, 20 degrees BFTDC, and on this engine, 40BFTDC is a handy reference, because at this point, it’s easy to slip in the idler gear. Counter weights and other stuff is in the way if you attempt to do this at TDC. Of course, 20BFTDC is reference for your spill timing, something discussed in the utterpower CD. don’t have one of these fancy levels? simply measure circumference and divide by 360, then multiply by number of degrees you want to mark off.

One trick is figuring out the best way to get the gear train in time. I use what I call 20/20 method, it’s easy to remember and if you established the 20BFTDC mark as most serious CHP builders will, you can use that mark. When you slip in the cam, make sure the injection pump lobe center is pointing at 10 O’clock AND that the flywheel is positioned at 20BFTDC. Verify your work by measuring that the Intake valve is about .020″ off it’s seat when the flywheel is at 20BFTDC. there is more info about timing the gears on the CD and likely elsewhere on the WEB.

Extracting heat from the exhaust system, what might we do?

Many of us have read about the problems created when we condense these gasses, some report that stainless steel doesn’t last forever in sections of a condensing exhaust system. The new over the road partial trap used in production diesel pickups in 2007 uses a lot of energy to literally incinerate small carbon particles that eventually create excessive restriction to exhaust gas flow. In a Stationary CHP plant, we have more room and thus more options and maybe some ideas could be used in over the road applications too. Example?:  The the diesel pickup truck, in northern latitudes.. we won’t wait till the particle trap if restricted, we make use of a demand for heat to clean the trap. We all know how nice those seats are with the electric heaters because a diesel is a little slow in making heat for the cab and defrosters on startup, why not use that period of demand for heat to clean the particle trap and recover a little of the heat and direct it into the defrosters and cab? Remember the gas heaters in VW busses in the 60s-70s?

Another thing I think about are the simple humidifier systems where a piece of cloth runs between two rollers, one is in the bottom of a water tank, the other roller is high and the air stream is directed thru the fabric to evaporate the water and then directed into a room where we want the moisture. What kind of particle trap could we make with this principle? What kind of solution (like soapy water) could we have in the bottom to trap these carbon particles and what other objectionable things in the exhaust stream could we remove with it?

More to follow, watch as we fit this CHP rig with heat exchangers which will carry reclaimed heat from both the exhaust and coolant to a heat storage tank. In order to meet our KISS philosophy and avoid the reported failures of active circulation elements, we will design both exchangers to thermal siphon to the main storage tank. From there the heat is pumped to a point of use using a 1/20HP cartridge circulation pump.

How to Order: You can order the LG series air compressors now.  Lovson has developed a CD that shows you how to convert this air compressor to a diesel engine and the CD is free with the purchase of an air compressor. Please note, you’ll need what Lovson calls the ‘selected parts kit’ which has virtually everything you need to build your engine in about 45 minutes if you have the basic mechanicals skills, longer if you haven’t been around a wrench or hammer for a while. To order: email Joanna@lovson.net

Remember you can import up to $2000 worth of goods yourself.  Check the US Customs website for more information.

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Society of Combined Heat and Power Research

Posted on July 12, 2010 by George B.

Society of Combined Heat and Power Research

copyrighted all rights reserved by Society of CHP Research

There’s little new under the sun, combined heat and power might have been achieved one cold morning when an operator warmed his hands on the hot pivot hub of a hydro powered irrigation wheel on the Tigress River a thousand or more years ago.

Others might point out the wisdom of Europeans who did one better, they built stables under their living quarters and utilized the waste heat off their animals. Oxen for plowing the field and pulling carts and wagons to deliver crops, and other warm blooded animals for food and clothing.  Was this and example of CFHP? Combined Heat, Power and Food?

Some of us believe the great innovations that came out of North America had everything to do with our individual rights, our ability to innovate and experiment without license. We North Americans are a little like Free Range Chickens, we scratch hard, we range wide, we are rewarded according to our efforts. Pen kept chickens grow lazy and learn to be content sitting and waiting for the next handful of cracked corn to be thrown over the fence.

You need not agree, but many think the way to end America’s greatness is to unionize every entity who innovates. We start with Apple, Microsoft, and Google, there would be a lot of support for it.   Get rid of the small companies, drive them from the market place by placing monetary burdens on them they can not afford. Add to this EPA and CARB requirements for research that only large companies can meet and you will stifle innovation.

I sometimes think this is the entire reason for the existence of moveon.org. It is a Trojan Horse brought onto our shores and originally funded from abroad. Many of our citizens are dazzled by the gold gilded adornments, they may have no idea what the furniture is to be used for, but they volunteer as labor to pull it through the main gate.

What we need do is to gather together, those who have engineering skills, electrical skills, hands on operating skills of power plants. Let it be a research society first and foremost. Let us demonstrate that a stationary power plant that is built at the point of use has many advantages and since we are not so limited by space or mass, we can easily mitigate emissions far beyond what is typically done in small scale power today.

A simple example might be using the heat generated by a particle trap to power an ammonia loop. We make use of the energy to cool at the point of generation WHEN there is no need for the heat.

We have waited long enough for large companies or the government to provide us what we want. We know that every environmentalist, and every rational citizen would support our efforts to lower emissions while providing a distributed power generation scheme where solar and wind power plug directly into the CHP generation scheme.

If you have a desire to join, if you have hands on skills and fabrication skills, if you know the difference between a BTU and an IOU, consider applying for membership, your email address will be routed into a contact list, (not publically shared, and you will be given more information.

Benefits of membership may include information regarding present CHP emission laws. methods to reduce emissions, valuable information about research parts and equipment and a members forum.

All the best,

George B.

Posted in UtterPower Articles | 4 Comments

Bronze Idler Gears

Posted on July 12, 2010 by George B.

Bronze Idler Gears in the Lister Types (Listeroids), Bronze Gear In Lister Types?

Update: I’ve added a link to a YouTube video, it is amazing how many people are cocksure they know what they’re talking about. I remember the call I got years ago.. “I ordered a steel idler, and I’ve had a train wreck in the gears, I’ve replaced the idler and the cam gear ,but still it doesn’t run.” My reply was to check the gear on the crank, this is an interference fit, and as you see, it’s mighty thin in the area between the bore and the root of the tooth. Expect it to crack, and spin on the crank… this is sometimes the result of placing the steel idler in an engine that runs a lot of hours.

Yes, with just a little thought, you can see the value of the sacrificial gear, so much easier to change the idler than the crank gear.  Of course, we can all turn our attention to the Mechanical Engineers who understood the value of a roll pin, or designing a coupler that was weaker that the crankshaft and sacrificed itself to protect the far more expensive crankshaft.

Sacrificial parts ARE part of the KISS design, building everything that fails stronger is dumb. Best you study modern gear trains, and note that the easiest gear to change is often designed to be sacrificial gear, it’s the KISS way, and the smart way.

As for the reasons for gear failures, they are many! Wrong material composition, improperly hobbed gears, poorly located position for crank, idler shaft, or cam resulting in really bad gear lash. When things are not quite right, and you can run a bronze idler, and get 6000 hours of running and all the while prevent the rapid shedding of ferrous materials that contaminate the bearing shells and bushings, you’ve found a solution to an immediate problem for people who may not have the luck, means, or skills to source the best parts and correctly fit them. I’m looking forward to the video about checking the gear to make sure it’s properly made, and showing us all how to set the gear lash between cam, idler, and crank..

So here’s the video, have fun watching  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYWL7o1q9aU&list=UUsRIkas3kySPOfe_Pj4sxIw&index=7&feature=plcp

Public forums offer us a chance to share ideas, some good, some bad. One thing I’ve noticed…. some of the most outspoken know the least about the topic. Before one considers commenting on the merit of a bronze gear, he should know and understand that we have replaced failed stock gears in several engines that failed very early (30 hours or less).  We replaced them with bronze and saw a lot service after the change, one engine we had documented hours on ran 6000 hours on the bronze gear after experiencing a train wreck on the stock gears.

My focus is off grid power, but on the next ring out of the bulls eye are those who want reliable power for backup power in storms and more. Guam’s last big storm is only one testament to value engineering. Well before the commercial power grid was rebuilt, there was a massive pile of junk generators building in the local metal salvage yard. Yes, Off Gridders are ‘one percenters’, we are interested in reliable small power plant that can run for a few months 8 hours a day minimum, and the other 99 percent of the population wants a bargain. who in their right mind would invest in satisfying the needs of our tiny segment? Who among us would be willing to pay the price for a stationary engine designed to run for sixty years as many once did?

I’ve seen an advertisement placed in a popular publication in Great Britain “buy my STEEL idler gear and all your idler gear problems will be gone”. Such an advertisement suggests the vendor has only started to inventory all the reasons gears wear or fail as there are many sources of troubles….. to name a few:

  • Poorly machined cam and crank gears with irregular teeth or improper pitch.
  • Crank, idler, cam shaft center lines not in the proper place.

Fact is, a new an idler gear made of cast iron or steel won’t fix these things, and may cause an expensive train wreck inside your engine.  It’s a fact that some owners won’t have the skills or knowledge to fix the cracked gear on the crank that is often the result of a train wreck like I describe.

The use of a steel idler can be similar to putting in a 60 amp fuse where a 15 amp fuse should be, it’ll never blow, but all the wiring might melt.. Ahhh says the seller, “just like I told you, that fuse might last forever, you may never have to buy another fuse!” More experienced people know they want the cheapest and/or easiest to replace part to fail and save the others, exactly like the fuse.

The bronze idler is more expensive, but it takes a shape and then work hardens. It mitigates the shedding of ferrous materials that often end up in the soft bushing materials in an engine that promotes ‘rapid wear’ in critical journals like the crank pin and cam shaft bushings.

Anyone who would comment that bronze is too soft for a gear material doesn’t understand that engineers have used this material in gear trains that carry thousands of horsepower. Look at diesel locomotives, the engineers who finally built a long life drive system to the wheels used bronze gears. You can also find a lot of industrial gear reduction boxes with bronze gears, they didn’t spend all that money to spec the bronze just because it was pretty.

There are articles you can find about gears and materials compatibility, I don’t claim to understand it all, but if you run a steel billet cam in a performance motor, you need to change the oil pump gear to bronze or it’ll wear rapidly and fail. The steel and the stock gear are not compatible. there are also notes that the bronze gear may not get along with other materials.

To my knowledge, JKson was the first to supply a >real< bronze idler for the CS clones, and the Request came from us here in the States because we had customers running long hours off grid and seeing failures. Ashwamegh sent engines over here that experienced failures in the gear train in the first 100 hours, not all of them of course, but enough failures where we were needing to find a solution and we got zero help from Ashwamegh. We ended up sending every owner of an Ashwamegh a bronze idler at great expense, this was a custom run of idlers at first. Do I suggest there were failures in one or two brands only? The fact is, I’ve sold the bronze idlers to people who experienced failures in many different brands of Lister Clones. I’m not sure there is one brand that hasn’t gone through an idler. I can tell you there are individual engines in many brands that never experience a failure, but do they have the hours of running? I do know quality control is an issue. It’s not a typical problem in the Dursley built machines, if there is a history of failed gears in any numbers; it has not been brought to my attention.

Joel Koch (Oregon) financed the research of idler failures and commissioned a gear company with 80 years of experience to look into the problem and recommend a remedy. This was done at great expense to him an of course it was done to help his customers when Ashwamegh would only comment that it was the end user doing something wrong. Several gear materials were tried and the more expensive bronze proved again to be the best material to use. But of course it took a while to get someone to supply a quality bronze gear, and that ended up being Jagdip Shah of JKson.

We have two 12/2s here in America that ran over 14,000 documented hours on bronze gears, NOT that there aren’t more. Since India often recommends a rebuild at 3000-6000 hours, we figure the bronze gear is doing a reasonable job, it mitigates the problems, it does not fix an improperly located shaft.

I’d like to recognize JKson here and now for making the effort to produce a gear train we can live with, it is fairly easy to inspect the idler and see it is wearing or not. The smart owner will replace it BEFORE it breaks! Usually the end of the teeth on the idler will be sharpened like a knife just before the train wreck. If you are unlucky enough to spin and break (usually a crack) the crank pulley, you will be in for some work.

The value of the bronze gear is now well understood by many who personally run the Listeroids long hours. Those who make comments about the bronze being all wrong for the job may be drawing off information where the materials the bronze runs against are different than what we typically see in the Indian Lister clones.

About now, some will ask why the Dursley Factory in Great Britain didn’t use a bronze gear if it were so darned good? My answer is they were using materials that worked well, and the accuracy of locating the shaft centers was likely done with far more accuracy. Whatever they did, it was more than adequate!

For the better answer as to what was used in the originals, we should turn to Historian David Edgington who has been of service to enthusiasts around the world.

My advice: If you are using the Lister 6/1 clone for off grid power or running long hours, build a file folder for pictures of your engine, use an inexpensive digital camera with a macro setting to take a picture of the idler gear installed in the engine. The flash and the big door access allow you to take wonderful pictures. Note how flat and wide the end of each tooth is. Take pictures at each oil change and look for rapid wear, you will see the width of this flat grow more narrow with wear. Make sure you change the idler BEFORE the train wreck, this is one of the weak spots in the Lister clones and deserves your attention!

So there you have it, we believe we’ve proved the value of the bronze gear, just one more opinion placed onto the world wide WEB, so many opinions … some written by folks with no dirt under their nails. I wish to thank folks from around the world who share their experience from their failures to running lots of trouble free hours with great success.

You might like to check out a trip Mamad made to see engines of the past who were designed to run many years in hostile conditions.

Posted in Buyer Beware, DIYer Generator, DIYer Skills, Generator Realities, Off Grid Power, Slow Speed Engines, Small Diesels, Strange Stuff, Test Bench, UtterPower Articles | Tagged , , | 6 Comments

Fitting Gib Keys

Posted on July 12, 2010 by George B.

This is certainly one of the more important topics regarding the Lister CS engines and other high mass flywheel engines that use the Gib Key as a fastener. We have all heard the stories of a ‘Run Away’ flywheel, and the damage to man, beast, or building they can do.

I remember having a a good conversation with an oil man that told me about a field engine that was missing a flywheel when they came to perform maintenance. Sure enough, they were able to follow the marks on the ground and found the wheel one mile away across open and flat country.

Of course losing a wheel is not the only danger of a poorly fitted Gib Key, flywheels have been broken in half with the root cause being an ill fitting key. Our DIYer community knows the importance of safety, and this is one important item.

With that said, I’ll turn this page over to Jack Belk, he’s certainly comfortable with this old design, but being a gun smith by trade, he’s got the background to explain it properly. My thanks to Jack for writing this up for us. – George B.

I Sure Learned Something Today!

By Jack Belk

I started (but got side tracked) to work on the bottom end of the new Power Solutions- Jkson kit engine this morning and wanted to be able to rotate it with a flywheel, so I had to make a gib key fit a *little* bit, anyway.

My *assumption* was that the Lister flywheels came as a right/left pair with tapered keyways in the wheel. At first glance it sure looked like they were not tapered, but after cleaning the gooey paint and assorted fibers out of the keyway and filing the paint off the face of the hub it’s clear the flywheel keyways ARE tapered.

The gib keys used in the Jkson kit engine are not standard to anything that I can find. British standard doesn’t call for a 9/16” key in any conformation.

SO, what follows is an amalgamation of information extrapolated from information gleaned from the 17ed. of The Machinery Handbook. On page 880, Table 3 it shows the ½” key having the same 5/16” height as the key supplied with the Jkson but having a width of .561 (nominal 9/16”) instead of .499-.501 for the 1/2” key.

My pair of keys were milled exactly right for width and are a sliding fit in hub and shaft. The thickness or height is .335″ at the head end tapering down to .305 at the tip.

I fit my keys with at least half inch of ‘pulling gap’ between the gib and the hub. Two keys took an hour to do right.

What follows is a crash course in using the “Expedient Milling Machine”, the common file, to fit steel parts accurately and easily.

I welcome any questions and if I can get a photographer lined up, I’ll get pictures, too. This is all two handed work.

With these keys, and many more parts that need fitted, it’s important to keep flat surfaces that are square with each other. There are ways of doing it without a milling machine or surface grinder, too.

You will need:

1) A small, flat, India or med aluminum oxide stone for de-burring and flattening. I like the combination sharpening stones by Norton. Six inch is a good size.

2) Degreaser. Acetone or spray brake clean is good.

3) Thin (.004″ or so), two sided carpet tape….looks like masking tape with a white paper cover.

4) A sharp scribe.

5) At least one of each of the following: 8 to 10 inch second cut file, smooth mill file, and smooth pillar file. Cheap ones are better for the time being. Indian surplus files are cheaper than the scrap iron they’re made from and will work for a long time.

6) At least a pair of HSS lathe bits at least 3/8″ square. Get ’em as big and as long as you can and rectangles are especially nice. When you see the use for them, you’ll agree.

7) A mounted bench vise in pretty good repair. The condition of the jaws makes no difference as long as you can get the old jaws out.. Be sure the vise is STABLE. There’s nothing like an avalanche of forgotten goodies from four shelves up on the fourth hard stroke of a big file!!

Set-up to cut STRAIGHT, FLAT, PARALLEL surfaces with a file

Use the stone and degreaser to flatten and deburr either the existing, smooth (rare) vise jaws, or remove the jaws and de-burr and degrease the socket. The socket more likely to be flat and square anyhow. Once both jaw sockets are smooth and burr free and *plumb* clean, (‘plumb’ is a Southern absolute), put a layer of two sided tape on both sides and trim the top flush with the vise.

Degrease a pair of tool bits and dry them. Holding them together and flat across the top, (you’ll curse yourself later but you *could* stick the bits to a magnet to hold them together right.). Now squeeze the lathe bits in the vise so that the top of the bits protrudes about .025 above the top of the vise and forms new ‘hard jaws’ being held to the vise with tape. Clamp in down one grunt tight when you *know* they’re straight and flush with each other and leave it alone over night.

Now open and close the jaws several times and learn to take the ‘slop’ out of the vise so that the jaws line up flat with each other every time. You might find it’s easier to take out the slop while setting the ‘jaws’ position the first time. It becomes second nature to nudge the movable jaw into alignment each time you tighten after a while. 🙂

Now you have a vise with flat, smooth, and HARD jaws that a file will scar up some but the jaws are the same hardness as the file and the file teeth are smaller so they lose the battle in the long run. Most solvents dissolve the glue in the tape and 200 degrees will loosen it too, otherwise it’s surprisingly hardy for holding the jaws. ‘Smooth and clean first’ is the key.

Fitting the key– Step One

Spray the sharpening stone with WD-40 or any light oil and stone the flat sides of the key. Look for bright edges or corners that contact the stone and gently stroke the part on the stone pressing straight down to maintain flatness with the stone. *Down* pressure should be about the same as de-bugging a windshield. Let the part find ‘flat’ for you. You’ll feel it. You know it’s right when you see the mill marks in the beginning of a mirror shine. All you want to do is make sure the surface is flat. Its’ already a bit too small. Degrease it and lay it aside.

Clean the keyway in the hub and the shaft and pick, scrape, file, and worry every last bit of paint, putty, swarf, scrap, grease, and crap out of both of them.

Use the EDGE of the mill (as in saw mill) file, which has a curved end just for this reason, to deburr and highlight the high spots in both hub and shaft keyways. Be sure to notice bad corners. When tools dull the corners are the first to go. If there’s a corner that’s *really* screwed up, don’t fret it. Just file the key to match, don’t try to repair a bad keyway with a file.

Break the sharp edges of the crankshaft keyway. All it takes is .010 to take away the terrible cuts to come if you don’t.

The edges of the crankshaft keyway is a natural for draw filing about four strokes to take away the razor edge with a flat angle that catches the light and look cool when running. IT’s also the very best way I know to do a self-amputation of digits with the OTHER sharp edge. BE CAREFUL!

Fitting the Key Step Two—

You don’t want the corners of your key to be what holds it in the hub or shaft. For this reason, file all the edges to a 45 deg. x .010″ or so chamfer. Just go on and get ’em out of the way so we can concentrate on the real fit.

Now the key is flat and smooth and the sharp corners are off. Will it slide in both keyways? It should, but just ‘slurpily so’. If it does, look very closely at the bottom of the key. Is it contacting all the way across or is it ‘bridged’ between bad corners? If bridged, draw file the full length of the key corners to relieve them enough to let the key ‘sit down’ in the keyway flat. Prussian Blue was made for this type of sliding fit fitting jobs. Think of the key as a racing slick not twin buggy wheels.

– “DRAW” filing is miss-named. You push the file to cut, not draw it to you.

It’s easy to get a ‘sway-back’ when drawfiling. Rub the part on the stone and it’ll tell you what’s high and low so it can be corrected before the part ‘dies’. J

Fitting the Key Step Three—

Mount the wheel on the shaft with the keyway at 12 O’clock. Remove ALL steel hammers from the room. J

Dry the key and the keyway (don’t panic, this is not for keeps) with degreaser…

Dry files allow the chips to fall from the teeth. A fingerprint has enough oil to let chips stick in the teeth and make DEEP gouges across the part being filed. Old timers rubbed chalk in their files, or dunked them in lime to keep them dry and ‘free’. Brush files often to remove chips. ONE chip can create more work…..!!

To keep my files dry I prefer a smudge pot to Prussian Blue for marking purposes. Both work well. Smudge pots are less hassle and is a one handed operation. J

Fire up the pot (diesel works but with aroma, kerosene is better) and wave the part until the shine of the steel is dimmed but not hidden. That soot layer is about .0003 inches thick…as in thirty millionths(!) thick.

Push the key into the keyway until it stops. Be careful to push the key straight down the keyway with the bottom flush. Pull it straight back out and examine what has hit the hub to stop forward motion.

Mine contacted harder on one side of the top than the other and the ‘snout’ hit before the butt end. That tells me the taper of the key is less than the hub, but there’s no way yet to tell how much, yet. The corner that was dragging only took three strokes of the draw file to take it down far enough to try again. I just lightly took enough from the ‘snout’ to see how much different the bore was from the key. A light ‘zing’ to just remove the bright patch and leave the soot around it unscathed is the goal. It takes skill to do it.

Re-smoke lightly and try again.

This time the contact on the snout was much broader and signs of scuffing was more than half way up the shank. The corner I filed down is still dark but smeared. The bottom is nearly shiny from solid sliding contact and the sides retain very little soot anywhere. Now it seems the top surface is geometrically correct and the angle of the key and hub are very close to the same, but the overall height of the key is too much so the key can’t seat deeply enough. We need the top surface to magically ‘sink’ a few thousandths but keep it’s flatness and relationship to the bottom surface.

Re insert the key and scribe a line on the sides flush with the face of the hub. That’s a reference to measure back to.

Step Four—

Place the key in the hard vise jaws and keep adjusting until you can feel a consistent .002 sticking up above the jaws. You can feel it with a fingernail, but barely. Now draw file the key until you feel and hear the ‘zing’ of the file on hardened steel. Use lighter and lighter strokes (to save file teeth) until the file no longer grabs soft steel anywhere up and down the key. De-burr the top corners, they’ll be razor sharp, and smoke the top and re-try the key. Again scribe a line at the level of the hub. Measure between the line to find out how much progress .002 made.

Check out the contact—is there a place that’s obviously tighter or binding quicker that others? *What* stopped forward progress of the key? Adjust accordingly.

Once the top is fitting to where there are scuffs evenly distributed across and up and down you can calculate how much steel off the top of the key it will take to sink the key to final depth. Be sure to measure four more times to be SURE, then take half of it and re-measure again.

To set a certain amount to file off the top of a key use a feeler gage laid beside the part on top of a vise jaw. A fingertip can usually feel a difference of .0005” between two parts IF the edges are sharp.

Step Five—
A tapered part fits in it’s socket with a ‘chunk’ sound. Several things affect the sound the parts make. The harder the socket and the taper are and the smoother they are and the steeper the angle of the taper is all determine the sound and feel of a taper seating correctly. This gib key will not be a solid thunk. The taper is too ‘long’ and the steels too soft. It’ll feel like a progressively tighter fit (like the tractor pulling sleds) over about 3/8 inch of travel, then stop. Figure on seating the key another 1/4 inch past thumb tight (make a mark) to hold the wheel for keeps but first it has to be prepared.

Figure out FIRST where the wheel will be set. Some are so close to the engine case removal of the cam cover is an exercise in Houdini magic tricks and bodily contortions to accomplish…..an inch past the bearing seal to give more work clearance won’t hurt anything, but figure it out first and mark it

I use a self-acting center punch for marking parts. It’s one handed operation and doesn’t cause grit and chips BUT the dimple has to be stoned out on sliding parts, like the crankshaft ends. That makes them hard to see. Make three marks side by side or in a triangle to make them more obvious. In this new kit engine I’m marking each part as its’ completed with a little (HJB) initial logo stamp I use for gun work. For a personal touch its’ hard to beat for about $25. (ENgraver Corp, no affiliation)

Scrub the shaft with solvent and steel wool. Remove any little flecks of rust or paint an any burrs there may be with a light stoning. DON’T use abrasive paper or cloths. The surface needs to be smooth and not have fresh ‘scarred’ metal. If you need abrasives to clean it, do so, but steel wool afterward to ‘deaden’ the surface.

Wipe dry, then dry again. Blow off all steel wool remnants . Apply chalk powder or lime with a dry rag and scrub the steel until it squeaks. DON’T touch it! Fingerprints are likely to pit the shaft and hub severely. Give the inside of the hub the same treatment. Don’t leave powder on the parts. Blow it off, don’t wipe. These parts are now oil and grease free. If not set together now they’re likely to rust over night. (seems a lot of trouble to go to, but this is how they did it when the original Listers were set up.)

Hoist the flywheel up and on the shaft and slide it to your mark. Give the key another wipe (you did scribe your name and date on the back of the key, right?) and set it in place to your mark with a brass bar and ball peen hammer. It’ll ring and let you know it’s there for the ‘duration’. I’m not going to attempt to tell you how hard to hit the bar, but it would have sure hurt if I’d missed.

Don’t worry about rust under the hub. It’s free of moisture and oxygen and sealed against both. That joint will likely be the last thing to rust on the entire engine. Now you can oil what you can still see to prevent the rust likely to come to whatever air can touch.

It’s a good idea to run the wheel by hand enough to know there’s no bad wobble and knock or weird feel or sounds. The fly wheel should *act* as a part of the shaft and sound like it.

I’m going to make key lockers for mine. The sledge hammer marks on Indian set keys makes me wonder if there’s another secret somewhere I haven’t thought of.

-Jack Belk

Posted in Important Safety Information | Leave a comment

Fix that Lazy 6/1 Governor

Posted on July 12, 2010 by George B.

For the sake of safety, Utterpower shares the Kiss Governor Mod we developed here. Simple? You bet! That’s what KISS is all about.

Above: Modification as typically installed.

05/21/06

There are lots of people who have noted the lazy response of the stock Indian Lister Type governor. I have discussed this with a few mechanical engineers, and I have received different recommendations. Some suggested the spring was too short, others the fly weights didn’t have the required mass, etc. At this point, I have lost track of all who helped me come to the conclusion that at least a significant part of the problem was in the linkage between the bell crank and spring. The stock design sucks in my opinion, and may be the only thing that looks poorly designed on this Legendary machine. Will India make this simple change on their machines in the future? Will they even try it?

After studying some of the Dursely built machines, I am not convinced that they didn’t have a similar problem. India only copied the governor linkage.

This governor problem got to be a ‘real’ personal issue at out Easton off grid location, as we have a deep well pump there. When I set the governor to work at the proper frequency with the pump running plus other loads, the engine would go into over speed when the pump shut down, a pain to deal with, and potentially dangerous.

The danger? Depends on just how bad the governor works on your engine, Balance issues, crank fatigue factors, and how well your flywheels are made. You will need to note that India is sometimes NOT careful with paint, (I think they use a broom in some assembly lines). You will need common sense to remove it off linkage, clean it, lube it, adjust it! Back off the adjustment you found it the crate! Run it with no load, run it with load, study the rpm drop in stock form, know what you have BEFORE the mods..

Now add this simple part, and rerun your test.

I will not bore you with a long list of folks that have installed this MOD, and have found similar improvements to mine, I will share a few reports, and leave the rest to you.. Should you have an accidentand it was noted or proved that your engine was running well above it’s rated speed, it could add to your liability, but that’s yet another topic.

what’s the problem with the stock setup you ask?

In the stock setup above, the adjuster can bind as the bell crank moves. when this happens, the adjuster can become part of the bell crank and the Geometry and length of the fulcrum changes, I hope this makes sense to you ??

07/05/06

George,

I made this change last week, and it makes all the difference in the world!! Tuning in specific load is SO much easier and faster. Also, it seems that there is more “flexibility” for different loads – the engine speed doesn’t dramatically change when I make small changes to the load…I no longer have to constantly dial in different governor fulcrum lengths only to result in non-linear responses; instead my adjustments yield much more predictable results. Your fix was simple and effective!

Thanks so much!

Matt

05/20/06

George,

Thanks for the instructions. The governor fixer went on easily, and we tested it. First we used the original setup and adjusted the frequency to 60hz. Then we plugged in an electric heater for the load. Immediately we dropped down to 57.5hz and lost 24 rpm. Then we installed the part. Doing the same test with the same load we only dropped to 58.9hz and lost 9 rpm. That is significant. We will continue to monitor things as we break this baby in.

Bill Dempsey

Jerry B

Using the Kill-A-Watt Meter the Stock Governor WAS: 61HZ(no load)—> 54HZ (heavy load AC and DC generators simultaneously)! After the kit you sent, I am now at 60HZ (no load)—> 58HZ drop (heavy load AC and DC generators simultaneously)! As soon as the batteries come up to about 14 volts, the HZ hovers at about 58.9-60! **If using only the AC generator, I get 61HZ no load and 60-60.2HZ heavy load! In either case, there is no more “subtle light pulsing” from the compact fluorescents. And Finally, Looking strictly at voltage readings, I’m now seeing 125 volts no load, and about 120-121 loaded! (heavy load AC and DC generators simultaneously)! Versus: the old setup at 135 volts no-load and 114 volts loaded! (heavy load AC and DC generators simultaneously)!

What a difference! I will find some little do-dad in my travels to send you and I won’t take no for an answer! This is more than an improvement – it’s a Revelation! I can’t say enough. When I update my webpages I’ll post this data as well (along with utterpower’s Gov Kit page as a link.)Great job George and I look forward to chatting with you again! Thanks Jerry

From Murray K, 8/2008
Murray’s implementation of the same mod.

George,

Installed and did preliminary tests on my modified governor spring and mount. Previous droop was 3-4hz with 1-2hz overshoot on load removal. With the mod, slightly less than 1hz droop with a 3kw load and nearly no overshoot on unloading. Seems to work much better than before and it looks nice. This was just a quick test after install, engine was not fully warmed up, and this engine only has about 3 hrs on it. Thought you’d like to know.

Murray

If you are are 60hz, I suggest you use the ‘Kill A Watt’ (google search), and set the engine for 61HZ no load, 51HZ no load in 50HZ countries.

Following is a cut and paste of my instruction sheet, this is indeed an easy part for the DIYer to make…

—————————————-

Utterpower Lister Type Governor Kit

For educational purposes only! Never run heavy machinery, as you could hurt yourself or others.

Copyrighted 11-1-05 all rights reserved utterpower.com

I first received a Report from Hugh Frater in Southern England regarding the lazy governor in the Family Estate’s off grid ‘Start-O-Matic’. Since then, I have noted that Indian ‘Lister Types’ don’t perform well enough for generator use, and when any other load is removed, they can go into over speed. I would imagine that all the combined efforts of India to figure out the cause of this problem would total less than three minutes effort. It is the way things seem to be there.

You will note that the adjustment has been switched around and the adjustment nut is now on the engine block. You will note that a cotter pin has been inserted into the end of the stock bell crank arm at right, and this becomes the new attachment point for the spring. Clip off the wings of the cotter pin after it is spread.

The machined piece provided is attached using a common bolt, 5/16×18 thread, common flat washers are used to ‘shim out’ from the block for good alignment and a non binding adjustment. Once alignment is correct, tighten the bolt to assure it remains in alignment.

One of the main problems with the stock governor linkage is that adjustment linkage on the spring side binds, and effectively becomes part of the Fulcrum at some point in its travel; this produces a serious non linear governor response!

Why does India not fix this problem? The answer might be that 95% of their loads are fixed, Example is irrigation pump where most of these engines are put to work. What happens when the pump loses it’s prime? You might ask India…..

Part= upgovkit

5 minute fix!

This kit is the result of three years of studying the Lister Type governors. What I was after is the KISS solution, I had no desire to make the fix any more complex than necessary, sometimes the simple solution takes a bit more time to discover and prove. It is never enough to prove it in one engine or even 5 engines. My personal experiments have found that this simple kit will double or triple the accuracy of the common governor found in the Lister CS, and Lister Type Variants. I have personally observed this improvement in 5 different generator sets. In every case, the accuracy was significantly improved. BUT, the proof comes from the field and our DIyer community, we now have many engines in the field with the mod reporting similar results.

———————————————————————-

Why is this important? Typically we set up a generator to run at 61hz or at the high end of the voltage range, then we allow the governor to hold the generator near 60hz. When you have a ‘lazy’ governor (as most Lister types are) the governor will not hold speed, more load on the generator will result in loss of RPM. If you then adjust the RPM up, the engine will go into over speed when the load is removed This can be dangerous, and appliances can be damaged.

The kit provides a key machined part, pictures and instructions. You will need to provide flat washers, common bolt, and a cotter pin. This is all at your hardware store or in your junk bin. This is a 5 minute job, and all work is done on the outside of the engine.

Added note.

You will always look for binding in the stock linkage, and as documented on the utterpower CD and elsewhere, poorly machined governors may add to the governor response problem, this is more rare, but the kit will not fix a broken governor.

To all those DIYers who contribute to the knowledge bank here, thank you! you are the most valuable resource utterpower will ever have. This page dedicated to Quinn Farnes, one of MANY who contribute here.

Always Learning, always having more questions than answers….

Added note, I have been selling the well machined part for $10 USD, I no longer make it make your own part it’s easy..This is a safety issue and that is all too important. Make the change!

In closing, my thanks to the students at Columbia University, Matt Basinger, and Prof Modi, for proving the dramatic increase in governor performance with this mod in their lab.

In closing, this page is for educational purposes only, and I suggest you never run an open flywheel of any kind.

Posted in Important Safety Information | Leave a comment

The VECTOR Battery Charger

Posted on July 12, 2010 by George B.

Vector Battery Charger

I have another product to complain about. Here’s the VECTOR battery charger, which promises to charge at rates as high as 50 amps, and even has a 150 amp auto start feature. They offer a five year warranty! WOW!

One day while I was charging on the 50 amp rate, the battery did not get charged, and the charger ‘timed out’. I found the connection at the 10 gauge wire going to the battery clips was hot! Looking at the connection, I see they used a rivet through the wire connector end, and then thru the battery alligator clip.

As we all know, when you need something done, you don’t have time to call in the warranty and find out if it’s any good, you fix it yourself to get the job done. Rivets were drilled out, connectors were soldered, quality screw fastener used, and that was the end of the HOT connection. Done.

Next problem was the little 12 volt cooling fan. This is a ‘run all the time design’, and the quality of the fan is not all that good (my opinion). As with many cooling fans of this type (same as computer power supplies) they either get dry and need a drop of oil, or they rapidly wear out, makes no difference what it needs, if it stops working your charger over heats and shuts down!

Now to tell you what I don’t like. In my mind, there are certain basic principles a decent engineer sticks too. One example, if you are offering a warranty, it’s really a good idea to build the product to last that long or maybe even a little longer. If the product makes use of mechanical devices (like a fan), make it easy to get at these devices for service or replacement. A smart engineer who has any life experience will consider designing a cover you can quickly pull to access a part as problematic as a fan! For the engineer who runs up against a bean counter who wants to save a few cents per unit, the idea of one more part (access cover) may get the axe. When this happens, he will then consider designing easy access into the case, and making it easy to get at the fan for replacement or oiling.

Getting into this case to service this FAN is going to cost you time you may not have. In my opinion, this case was likely designed by some kids right out of school. There are several different sizes of screws (for no good reason). Seasoned design teams learn the value of designing a case with one size screw as this makes money on the production line. I think this unit is a product of three or more design teams. There’s the telescoping handle, the charging unit at the top of the case (fairly compact) and this big clunky case made to look like the old heavy duty charger often seen in gas stations or repairs shops of years past. Figuring out (from the outside) just which screws you need to remove in order to get at that fan is going to cost you more in labor hours than the $175-$200 or so that some people paid for this unit. Once in, you might struggle to align the clam shell case, and get the thing put back together. If you actually own this unit, beware that some screws are black, and may have stayed in their holes, if you forget, and put a brightly plated screw on top, the point will ‘wedge in’ the first screw, and you’ll make yourself more work to remove both of them and start over. These are long screw holes, and you’ll need a long shank Phillips to get to them, so use a flash light and prove the screw is out of the hole, or count holes and screws.

10 gauge wire to the battery clips? I guess I’ll leave that to you to decide if they ‘cut corners’ here.

Bottom line, to bury a problematic fan so deep in a product like this, and to make some really poor connections in such a (KNOWN) problem area sure doesn’t help to add value to the product. If I were the CEO of this company, I’d make every person on this design team replace a couple of fans in this unit so they can be thinking about how they’ll do it differently next time. Yes I know, it’s a disposable ‘throw away’ world, but I don’t think this was a ‘throw away’ price.

Practical experience is something that upper management often discounts, and I sometimes think Wall Street doesn’t know the difference between a seasoned Rocket Scientist, and a kid out of school with a 4 year degree. Sure, they know the difference in their wages, but since they themselves are usually inept when it comes to electrical or mechanical ability, they discount the value of knowledge and experience in this area. Just how hard could it be??

It reminds me of how Mechanical Engineers are perceived by society today.. “just another greasy mechanic”.

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Epson Stylus Photo 820 Printer

Posted on July 12, 2010 by George B.

Here’s the second item I’ve owned during my 57 years of living that I hate! The Epson Stylus Photo 820 Printer is truly the worst printer I have ever owned or used. Keep in mind my first printer was an ASR33! I would have placed a picture of the 820 here, but I had tolerated this piece of junk all too long, and it went directly into the trash this A.M. This printer is so bad I am ashamed to have bought it. The Epson 820 was designed with one mission, and that is to use as much ink as possible, and to make it as unpleasant as possible for the user to configure the printer for a more economical print. An example is when you wish to print black only, the software warns you that you are messing with advanced settings, and you may be screwing up! Printing out a color picture leaves the paper so wet, you can’t believe you just shot that much ink onto one piece of paper. You’ll be looking for a clothes pin to hang up the print to dry and you’ll be recalling the high price you paid for the cartridge. What a waste!

The creators of the 820 software thought they were clever, you get warned if you put a so-called compatible print cartridge in this printer. Yes, they’ll tell you that you may have troubles and I did. Let’s say you are in a hurry to print a document and the cartridge runs out of ink. This printer knows you have broken the design team’s rules, and you are going to be punished! You will get messages as to how one orders a proper ink cartridge, and they’ll even take you the online store. Pull the plug, reset your printer, and it still knows that you filled that cartridge, and you’ll be stuck till you comply. Could you figure out what they did to detect this? I’m sure, but who has the time? Best to just toss it in the garbage and head for the nearest store.

Being an average male shopper, I figured the odds were in my favor that no one could have made a printer as bad as the Epson 820, so I excluded any Epson option and grabbed a cheaper printer with a name I recognized. I couldn’t but help end up with a better printing solution, right?

When I walked into Target’s electronics section, I looked at Lexmark, and then sawHP printers. I thought about that old HP500 I once had, which printed about a ton of paper during it’s lifetime with zero troubles. I spied an HP3745 for $49.00 – that’s less than the new cartridges for the piece of crap Epson 820. I checked out the recommended print cartridges for the HP3745 and noted they were far less than the Epson820?s. I then looked at the cheater ink packages and saw claims that it worked in this HP cartridge. Could be, maybe not, but at least there is a claim, and I took the time to note it.

I grabbed the printer, the ink, and looked for the quickest way to check out. I figured I could maneuver my way past the fat gal looking at undergarments and be there in about 90 seconds, it worked just that way, but I couldn’t get the image of that ‘isle wide’ lady in those red panties out of my head all the way home.

When home, I took the HP3745 out of the box, and found everything to be as logical and usable as other HP printers I’ve owned. I recovered some desk top space, as this printer has a far smaller foot print. I noted just how quiet the HP is. You will have to experience an 820 to believe the high frequency noises it can make, and it seems to go on for 30 seconds or more after printing. When I first got the 820, my wife came into the room wanting to know the source of that new annoying sound, and it happened all the time I had it.

I loaded the new cartridges into the HP, far easier and more logical than the 820. When I printed the first color picture, I was plenty pleased, and this was plain ole ink jet paper, I noted how dry it was, and I felt instantly relieved.

If there’s an especially bad person on your shopping list, see if you can find an Epson 820 Printer and make a gift of it to them. You’ll be giving them a slice of hell!

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