The smart car, not so good fuel economy, no crush zones, no room for your friends, and not so good on fuel economy. So why do people buy it?
My answer, the car is sold to the Gang Green crowd, all you need do is call it Green, they’ll buy it.. and besides.. “isn’t it cute, and aren’t I cute sitting behind the wheel?
The Metro, is the real smart car, and there are a few on the street driven carefully that get Sixty MPG when re-tuned for mileage VS EPA emissions. This is fact..
Resurgence
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According to U.S. News and World Report, in 2008, when gas prices were at all-time highs in the U.S., Geo Metros were selling for more than their original prices. Also, the newspaper reported, Internet searches for the fuel-efficient cars were spiking.
Read more: Information on Geo Metro Cars | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/facts_7320183_information-geo-metro-cars.html#ixzz1nJ9saryl
It’s that time again, you might consider that Chevy Metro or similar while you can. The president said fuel prices need to go up, they’re now double what they were when he was elected to office, and rising. Our good friends to the North were told to ‘kiss off’ as per a pipe line from one of the largest oil reserves on the planet.
Remember that guy who made good money fixing up old air cooled VWs? Perhaps you could make some money doing the same with Metros, Zuks, or other high mileage cars? Let’s face it, your money is not doing any good in a saving account, thank your Government for that…
Thanks for the link Dave S. 🙂
GB
Added comment: OK, you know this struck a nerve with those who like tiny and impractical cars.. now we know they are making a Smart for 4 people! Sorry folks the competition is too stiff, and now Ford is going to drop the new econboost 1.0 litre turbo in their Festiva! You’ll need a very large price difference, or need be infected with gang green to buy the smart over that offering. Time tells all.
Here’s a great article found in Motor Trend, after you read the article, look at the price comparisions, …ask yourself, why would you buy a car that has all the disadvantgaes noted? http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/1110_2012_scion_iq_first_test/
Yes, those in Europe have far different infrastructure, and they can and do get by with a totally inflexible car designed for intercity stop and go. In America, there’s only one real motivator to offer a car like this, and that is to satisfy some Government Mandate. The masses here will once again speak loud and clear, those of us who really understand the conservation of energy will buy the Swiss Army knife. The butter knife might be in use at every European meal, but here we simple people are focused on utility out of necessity.
The best reason to get an IQ? Somone offered to trade you one for a smart car.
On the Volt…
It’ll be fun to hear from the Dope Smokers down in California that told us there were thousands of people who had orders in for Chevy Volts or would soon as they got the production line got sorted.. truth is now known, the California Volt lovers spent all their money on Dope instead.. First it was the production line wasn’t ready to crank them out, then the battery scare.., that would not have discouraged very many techies. But now we hear the gang green crowd are blaming Rush Limbah. The claim is that he said no one wants to buy the car… and apparently all those who vouched to buy one take their marching orders from Rush as to what they buy… what a joke they are 🙂
Remember.. history tells all, and the past is a real good indicator of what will happen next.
I’ve had a 93 metro since 96 and am fond of it. But I wonder if the smart twofour doesn’t get unfair treatment. It appears the EPA has sabotaged fuel mileage on small cars with their revised test. Look at some of the stickers on new fiestas. They say something crappy like 39 mpg in bold print but below that area in fine print it says you may get as high as 49 mpg on one of the models I was looking at. I have heard that smart cars can hit 50 mpg if tested by someone not the EPA. I suspect government conspiracy, of course. Notice how nothing cheap getting high mpg makes it to the USA. All those nice diesel minis and fiat 500s and ford ka and vw polo and a bunch others getting 60 or more mpg with small gas and diesel engines never make it here, or if they do they get a special American sized engine that drops their EPA mpg to upper 30’s. I think the EPA must regret the existance of 3 cylinder geos and Justy’s and sprints, swifts, crx and a few other ultra mpg cars still on the road. Iook for some type regulation here.
As evidence of either conspiracy or incompetence consider the emissions regulations in nc and I guess some other states. Before swapping engines I used to fail inspections sometimes. At 150k it started having a high hydrocarbon reading. The limit was 105 ppm(or so) I was failing at around 110. But SUVs and trucks could have approx double passenger cars hydrocarbon ppm and still pass. But if they were getting 14 in an suv and I was getting 50 mpg they could put about 8 times the hydrocarbon as my geo before failing emissions.
Bill… never try and make sense out of it! If we didn’t have C02, we’d all be dead, and they think it’s a dangerous gas..
I probably should have kept my ’84 Chevette with the factory installed Isuzu diesel & 5spd (sold it to a buddy in about ’99). He’s still driving it around.
Never once did I see less than 45mpg in the city, and driven at 60mph or less on the highway it would get around 70mpg.
Of course, it’s top speed was about 70mph on a good day. With a downhill. And a tailwind. 😉
Oh… I originally paid $50cdn for the car!
How’s THAT for overall economy!!!
None, none, absolutely none of the government’s and greenster’s gibberish is to be taken seriously until they stop the war on small cheap cars with diesel engines. They DO NOT want the problems solved that would be solved with a return to small cars and diesels. Those problems are their jobs program. The government does not want you living an inexpensive life and enjoying the ease that progress has made possible. The goal is to put you in a crappy particle board $300,000 home and a 25 mpg $35,000 car and a $50,000 public college for your kids and make payments till the day you die. They get more tax that way. Also, contented, happy people start looking for other things to do, like attending libertarian meetings or finding hobbies and exercising rights. The person who’s just barely making payments and running scared is their ideal. Oh, and their career should be doing something with paper in an office serving an industry whose existence is the result of some mandate. Certainly not making anything with materials and machines and actual skills.
I got my first Geo Metro in 2008 when the gas prices spiked. Now I am obsessed with these little cars!
I’m one of those ”green people’…NOT!!
I’m 60 years and try to behave like a responsible person. I don’t see the need to move 2 tons of steel when I have to go somewhere.
I also remember the ”energy crises” of the 70’s and 80’s. Does 55 ring a bell?Therefore when the diesel smart car became available in Canada I bought one in 2004.
Best purchase I have ever made. The car is a marvel. It is very easy to get 60mpg and with hypermileing can get 100mpg. However the diesel version is not available in the USA because your government thought it would be too polluteing. Ya right!
I’ll also rather take my chances in a smart car that has been specially designed to protect you…that includes front and side airbags, a stability program, and the rigid safety cell that surrounds you.
Anyways it is much better to rely on active safety measures as opposed to passive ones, like riding in a tank.
Good luck with finding old metros taht aren’t rusted out
Dear Smart142,
Enjoyed your post, all save for the responsible part.
Down here our more responsible people ride bicycles, you can carry a passenger just like the Smart Car, and according to Bike Riders, you get infinite miles per gallon, find an easier time parking, and you don’t have to pay somebody to to fix the ‘stability program’ when it goes out. They also point out they’ll be healthier, and less of a burden on society.
For the rest of us less responsbile people, we attempt to buy more flexible vehicles that serve the needs of famlies, As for the Metro, it will haul a few bales of hay or some cord wood in pinch, some suggest it’s a less selfish car, as we can haul more people, and that’s far less carbon per person.. I’m sure there’s a lot of us who will pass up the clown car for the flexibility of a four passenger car. GM, do us all a favor, and put some new metros on the lot for sale.. diesel? sure, we’d love that too.
I like what the reader said about being obscesssed by the metro. My first car was a spitfire and the geo has that kind of fun. I also like that I bought a new 3 piston, ring and wrist pin set for $60. Full gasket and seal set was $35 including shipping. A reground crank and bearing get was 165. It’s hard to beat that for cheap. A set of new valves is $39. A good point to look for in survivalist cars like these is non-interference engines. I broke a timing belt on the geo and it cost me a $15 timing belt from autozone. My wife’s Suzuki aerio broke the timing chain two months ago and the engine is trashed full of particles and shards. The aerio had a timing chain in the crankcase so that to change it you need to remove the engine/tranaxle and take out the crank. Not exactly a maintence job.
I notice the has smart car is an interference engine. But the new ford fiestas are non-interference. I do not understand the engineering reasons why one engine is and another is not. Maybe the group who does small engines are part of the dull and boring division and they aren’t the best engineers and can’t design a non-interference engine.
With regard to rust, I have kept my geo outside since I bought it used in 1993 and it has not rusted. The replacement for my wifes aerio is a 1995 Suzuki swift which is the same as a geo metro. They are both rebadged Suzuki cultus. It is not rusted either. But we don’t use all the much road salt in north Carolina. Btw that’s a pet peeve of mine. If some private firm came up with a plan to dump billions of pounds of salts on the road there would be holy hell. But when government does it that’s just fine.
On Suzuki Pakistan’s web site you can see that they are still making the old second generation cultus, which is the same car as a 1993 geo metro 4 door. And It comes in both petrol and cng!. Right now the us is burning natural gas at the well heads because storage is full. It cost 925,000 Pakistani credits, which is 10k in the us. If uncle scam were not protecting us you could have one shipped over and own it for less than almost any other car.
Perhaps what we need is a movement similiar to the lowcost 7. Just visit yahoo groups to take a look at that world wide movement!
We need not make fun of the clown car owners, BUT for most mechanically inclined people, a vehicle that can’t at least haul two weeks of groceries home is NOT considered a practical investment, and not being able to haul at least 4 people makes it the second or third car in a typical north american family, how smart is it to license and insure all of them in hard times? Might as well use the insurance money to buy fuel for the one vehicle and perhaps save in the long run.
With all said, perhaps the real DIYer movement should focus on a tube frame like the locost, but of course it need be designed to function more like a utility vehicle. Light weight, and ready to accept the standard donor parts. No suprise the Metro lives on, and many of us know that the metro is a rebadged Zuk, at least most of it.
I picture a tube frame made of one inch sqaure tube, two seats up front, and a jump seat that fits in the back when you need to haul passengers instead of hay, firewood, groceries, etc.
light weight, is key.. many states have very generous rules for home built vehicles.
Yes, yes yes! I’ve been blabbing to the other machinists at work about this for 15 years. I’m sure they are tired of it. Also, give the thing a little ground clearence and put a rack 97 inches by 49 under the car so you can slip a 4 inch high stack of plywood or 5v roofing in from the back or carry tubing and angles. Even a geo is 13 feet long and almost wide enough. I dont know why cars haven’t had this for 100 years. Also the cars body panels should be made of corrugated galvanized roofing vw thing style. A dent or rust-through should be a $15 dollar pop rivet project not thousands. Who decided that something that has to live in the rough environment its whole life should be a shiny object of mirror perfection? Maybe all my dirt in the yard should smoothed and filled, sanded painted and waxed and buffed too. What a counter productive world.
Dear Gerge B.,
I thought your post was ignorant.
Up here in Canada we do ride bicycles but we also have snow and 4-5 months out of the year it would be very dangerous to ride. It isn’t a viable option.
As for having a flexible 4 person vehicle, I dare you to do this.
Stand on a corner and count 10 vehicles going by. I’ll bet that 9 will havea sole occupant. The stats say it is 1.2 people in the car.
You live in a wastefull society.
I’ve adapted to the 2 seat smart car and it meets 99% of my transportation needs.
I KNOW that I’ve reduced my carbon foot print in the past 7 years, have you?
So I’ll continue to drive my ”clown car” and some of you can dream about finding a metro.
Smart 142,
I thought you said you weren’t Green? Carbon foot print? huh? We like carbon here, we also like carbon dioxide, as we know none of us would be alive without it.
Didn’t I mention my real concern was that most who own the smart car need another car, and that pretty well shoots the whole carbon foot print reduction idea right in the arse if you add up all the pollution you created buying both the smart car and the more practical metro you’ll likely need >if< you're an average North American. Next you'll be telling us the Smart car is better than a hummer in the snow and ice? Yes, I do give you credit for buying the diesel, maybe a big roof rack could make it more practical? Add a couple of seats up there too... http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=9iKGfo1wmOM&feature=endscreen
Smart142, do they salt a lot in Canada, like the us or have people learned how to drive on snow well?
I am very envious of having small diesels. I did have a a mercedes 300d for a few years but even in north carolina cold nights could render it unstartable. Does the smart diesel with new technology let you start easier in the cold without a block heater?
I don’t want to get into a metro vs smart thing because I like all small cars as long as their mpg is proportional to their size. But I will say you don’t have to dream about finding a metro. $1500 gets you one almost any day. $3000 gets a cream puff and $500 gets one that needs some work.
Bill- I responded here because you called smart car owners ignorant and then dissed the smart car. You encouraged a response with those remarks.
And yes, they use lots of salt up here on the roads because they try to protect the ignorant masses who don’t know how to drive or bother to put on winter tires.
The smart car has newer diesel technology than the 300d so it is able to start in the cold weather. Mine has gone through 8 winters and has performed like a trooper.
Do you intend on buying one of those metros?
Goerge B.- what is the point of posting that old,old video clip?? Am I supposed to fear for my life now?
If you look close the windshield remained intact and anyone in the seats would have been kept away from the impact. Open your mind!
You took the liberty of saying that I drive a ”clown car”. What exactly do you drive?
Oh, and I prefer oxygen over carbon dioxide.
Hi Smarty,
We are all ignorant when it comes to one topic or another, it’s good a man knows his limitations, and I do undertand mine. I am glad you are here to tell your side of the story.
As for the video post I made, I think it does a fair job of illustrating the concern over the basic design of the SMART car. The shortness of the car means there’s very little room between ‘your’ body parts and the bumper to dissipate the energy in a collision.
Smart people have done wonders with sheet metal structures, and even using the engine mass to absorb some of the energy all the while moving these components in a direction other than into the foot wells, or interior of the car where human body parts reside.
Your remark about the windshield being intact, I find that interesting. One of the key issues is how much G force the Human body can tolerate. Perhaps the key elements are the velocity the human body is traveling relative to the impact point and the mass and shape of the impact point.
Your organs, your retinas, and more can only decelerate so fast without major damage.
I’ll confess that I am ignorant as to why the engineers of the Smart Car think it is smart.. I am not aware of any magic foam, fairy dust or perhaps magic Jello that can effectively alter time or distance and give the human occupant the time required to decelerate without death or permanent damage.
I do understand the Smart car is likely more safe than a motorcycle, but my problem is this car (as equipped in the USA) is attractive mainly to people who know we should not have the right to own a gun, eat a triple meat paddy hamburger, or many other things, I question why they think it’s OK to own a car that is far more dangerous than it need be.
I am glad you are impressed with the windshield being intact. I want to see the crash dummy data, would his brain, eyes and internal organs be as useful as the windshield?
Now for the sake of argument, what exactly would be lost by adding a little more length to this car between the fire wall and the front bumper? I’m sure some would suggest that it could improve the drag coefficient and likely increase Hi way mileage and give the engineers the badly needed space to absorb additional energy in case of an accident.
I do agree, the smart car may be smarter than a bicycle in snow and ice, but due to it’s extremely limited functionality, high price, and other factors, most will need another car standing by in the driveway for other duties. I don’t even suggest that’s wrong, but I do think it’s wrong for Greenies to drive around in their Clown mobile and suggest they are saving THE PLANET while others do nothing.
The Metro owners, and those who drive the far more flexible and practical cars can and do operate with a single family auto… go ahead and fool yourself… your real cost per mile has everything to do with the total cost of your vehicles, license tabs, insurance and more. The Metro remains one of the smarter cars ever made.
smart142
You must have me mixed up with someone else in this thread. Re-read, please. I like smart cars, I possibly like their owners too. I have definitely not called their owners ignorant. I like all small cars but especially the ones that get very high mileage. I would be totally stoked about smart cars if the corrupt government would let me have a small diesel smart car. Even with the inferior mpg US version I think they might be neat and I suspect their lame mpg is due to the revised EPA testing of (2007?) whose purpose seems to be eliminating small cars from consideration.
I have owned the same geo metro since 1996. Just two weeks ago I went to hanging rock, nc and picked up a complete engine and a short block for $200. I was well into rebuilding my metro’s engine but for $200 I couldn’t pass up having 3, 3 cylinder engines on hand and I installed the long block. Only 85k and no smoke, clean oil. Runs like new again. I think one of the surplus engines will end up direct driving my st-5 from utterpower using cng if I am low on wvo for the listeroid.
A couple of months ago my wife’s 2003 suzuki aerio had a major engine event. Not wanting to spend $1500 for a short block we instead bought a 1995 suzuki swift(which is a geo metro) for $1400. Solid runner. Unfortunately it is a 4 cylinder 1.3 liter and only returns mpg in the low 40’s. Converting to the 3 cylinder is easily done since the 4 is simply an extended block. It does need 1 extended engine mount and a 3 cylinder ecu($50).
I have written almost all of this in this thread already.
Maybe you latched on to my criticism of the fact that the 1 liter 3 cylinder smart gas engine is an interference engine and categorized me as a hater.
My apologies to bill knighton! I thought he penned the original post.
And I bow down to the all knowing George B. who thinks it it ok to call smart car owners ignorant. Good on ya buddy, hope you feel good about yourself.
Contrary to your beleifs, the smart car has proved to be safe. The FARS Data for 2008 AND 2009 shows the smart fortwo has a LOWER than average death rate. PLUS we have the IIHS (Insurance Institute Highway Safety) Data that shows that the smart is less likely to be in an accident AND when the smart is in an accident the medical costs are lower than
average….http://www.smartcarofamerica.com/forums/f182/2009-fars-data-shows-smart-safe-34023/
Smart,
Sorry, I think I said it all in a previous post, measure the distance between the seat restraints and the bumper, if you add more crush zone up front you greatly increase the chances of survival in a frontal collision. It’s a clown car, I don’t feel bad about having the opinion, and you shouldn’t feel bad about me saying it.
Regardless of the cage, types of restraints, and more, you need to keep the human body from coming to a rest too abruptly… or retinas detach, and body organs suffer permanent damage.
There is no magic, it’s all about speed, distance, and time, since we can’t alter time, we are left with speed and distance, if we pick a fixed speed, let’s say 40MPH, we have one variable left, and that’s distance. At the moment of impact, we attempt to use what structure we have to bring the human body to rest without destroying organs, maybe the ideal crush zone in the given space would look like a straight line as far as the G forces on a graph.. If we double the length from bumper to occupant, and we make the best utilization of the crush zone, we effectively double the chances of survival. I think the car is a dumb Idea.. I’m afforded the right to think so till they chance the law. I don’t care what the accident data says to this point, I’ll go with basic physics.
Other Clown Car owners will surely side with you, and you can all call me the ignorant one, my feelings won’t be hurt at all.
http://www.treehugger.com/cars/smart-car-how-smart-is-it.html
This one might please all:
http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=250897374446&index=14&nav=SEARCH&nid=75468258934
I hope that URL works. It’s for a smart fourfor. I looks to be the size of a fiesta but has a 1500 cc diesel and gets 62 mpg combined. But that’s imperial gallons but still that doesn’t suck. A 2006 goes for 4000 pounds uk. 5 doors and plenty of room for utility. Seriously, we really really need to limit government because the free market it dying to give us all the cheap efficient diesel we want.
Bill,
We know there’s great rides to be had outside our borders, another vehicle likely better engineered (for handling) is the Suzuki Diesel Turbo for sale now in UK, and it’s a 62 MPG auto (imperial), and said to be fun to drive according to the Blokes that like to drive the wheels off test car loaners.
But now, we have the Festiva with the new Econoboost engine, as I’ve mentioned, the econoboost in the Ford F150 truck is a rocket ship with difficult to believe MPG considering the truck looks about as areodynamic as a barn door! I think Podkanowicz has seen 23MPG with his trucks, he was so impressed he bought two of them and he wasn’t even thinking about buying a truck! 360hp, he’s no kid, but mashing the pedal is fun he says..
The econo boost at 125hp in the Festiva should get excellent mileage and be a blast to drive. I expect there will be sport options, and there will likely be ways to tinker with the computer to bring the Horsepower up even further. This engine is not a diesel, but a far higher efficiency gasoline engine, and the fact the fuel is less per gallon than diesel now-a-days might make it a consideration.
Smarty might be annoyed by the Tree Hugger article that said bad things about smart car handling.. they likely handle like a Lotus 11 nowdays 🙂
Seems the Fords are normally targeted for after market speed and handling parts, and it’s my guess some of the kids will sell their Hondas to buy one of these new Festivas once they learn you can easily get more horsepower out of it. Didn’t look, but maybe there will be an aftermarket intercooler for it about the second week of production. There’s the Smart2, smart4, but it’s possible the new smart one will be a Ford, we need wait and see..
$/per mile $/per fun
Ford understands you need offer cars that people want to buy.. the econoboost is a key part of their strategy.. high performance, along wiht excellent fuel ecomomy..
Consider the 420 foot pounds of torque out of their stock V6, 365 real HP. We need consider that the high performance 426 Hemi was only 480 foot pounds of torque! Read about the smaller engines and the strategy here… http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=34525
Dear George B:
You are the one who should realize your limitations. Your idea about changing the engineering of the smart car is rediculous. A team of Mercedes Benz spent over 20 years developing this car and they knew that they had great challenges to overcome because they wanted to keep the vehicle very small. The tridion safety cage is a marvel of engineering that uses specially reinforced titanium steel, purposeful small crush zones, judicial placement of air bags,and steel seats with new design seat belts.They were very innovative and achieved their goals. The accident and insurance data proves this. Even you George will have to admit that the Mercedes Benz name is not associated with an inferior product. They do not build death traps. Leave the engineering to them.
Yout attitude shows that you are not open to new ideas.
Fair enough Smarty…
Maybe you re read what I said. It is all about time, distance, and speed. You said it, the MB Engineers wanted to build a very small car. I think too small between front bumper and occupant. MB has made their fair share of Mistakes over the years, I choose to think this is one of them. My main critisim is that there are other cars that offer more flexibility, better mileage for less money.
We’ll see how it goes, we do know the truth of the matter is a manufacturer needs to make cars that people want to buy, unless Government forces us to buy them through subsidies. If the Clown car outsells the more practical cars, then I’ll be proven wrong, I can handle that as I’ve been wrong before.
There for a while MB was producing Autos that needed a significant amount of maintenance, other Manufacturers forced them to re-think that in a BIG hurry… and they did!
I think most people WILL buy the more practical 4 seater autos. At the end of the day, we know it’s not you, me or the MB Engineers that decide what the better engineering is… it’s the consumers.
And I soooo know my limitations, I’ve said nothing here half as stupid as what I hear coming from Washington DC every day…I have a right to be stupid. I
appreicate your visit, and you telling your side of the story. It may be the majority that would side with you. Let’s watch sales figures together..
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And now… there’s the Scion IQ, smallest four seater..
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S.M.A.R.T = S.ome M.otorists A.re R.e T.arded