?Can a US Citizen Legally Own a new Indian clone? Question of the day

Question of the day, 1/12/2010

Dear George, “Can a  US  citizen purchase( legally) a new Indian clone listeroid?”

 Thanks, Mike M


Answer: “yes”


I’m no attorney, I give my opinion only…. no matter how wrong I might be.  A lot of what I say is based on reports I receive about sales.  As I have mentioned, The EPA’s mission is not so clear, and there are many lines so blurred that it will be impossible for them to rule along clear and concise legal lines.  An extreme example might be that they must allow dairy cows to exhale as long as dairy production is legal even though they have ruled CO2 is a dangerous gas. We might be allowed to breath in the future too,

an thus they desparately need this quota system to collect payment from those who exhale more than their allotment. 


There are reports from good sources that there are pelletizers being brought in that can make pellets out of bio mass, for food and fuel.  The prime movers attached in some cases are slow speed and do not meet tier 3 or tier 4 to the best to my knowledge,…. they were allowed into the country. There is one entity selling engines out of Kansas today, these are 8/1 Listertypes fitted with aluminum pistons and they are D.I. It’s purported that the seller has  communicated with a few potential purchasers and said he has a new container in bound.  There is another dealer in Maine that is offering to sell Kits or complete engines, “I’m not sure which”.  Might this mean that the EPA has modified their rule, and now allows Lister types to burn bio-fuels? Is it now legal to sell them under those terms?  


When I last visited this topic, there was a legal form an importer could sign that simply stated.. “the engines I am importing do meet emissions”.  The problem and fines come into the picture if or when the EPA decides to spot check your claim, and if they decide you committed fraud, you might liquidate every asset you own to pay the fines. So we clearly don’t know if the sellers have a clearly legal case to sell, OR that they think they do. We don’t know if there is a new gray area that just appeared, and we don’t know when that gray area might be better defined and close. I do believe the importer is the one on the hook, and if you receive the engine with the understanding it meets emissions for your intended use, it’s not likely you’d be fined.      


We need expect the EPA rules to be challenged in court every day, I would imagine a lot of the EPA’s resources are used to re-write their rulings as they are modified in court for allowing  emissions or for being so strict that agriculture (example) can no longer function.


But.. one thing we are all curious about is the possible modification of the EPA’s ruling on the Lister Type. The original rule just after they removed the stationary exemption clause was to force the Lister Clones to meet either tier 3 or tier 4 on petrol diesel. I would think there was room for a court challenge since you might choose to run another fuel that may allow you to meet their emissions standard, and they may have denied you your right to make use of that other fuel.  If we look at it logically, they may be found guilty in court of suppressing your efforts to lower overall emissions in your operations through a prudent selection of a combination of fuel, and prime mover. 


Cogen offers the EPA further challenges, as emissions issues can become quite complex, and how they might rule, even more complex. Let’s look at the state of the art bio mass gasifiers. If you look at this previous post  you’ll see an entry Bob Gayle made about a clean plant in Finland that makes use of a prime mover.


Considering that we can take the exhaust of the prime mover and run it through a reactor that might produce zero emissions at the so called tail pipe, can the EPA legally tell us what kind of equipment we can import based on emissions with a fuel we choose not to use? I don’t think so.  And I think there’s a clear case for importing the Lister clones for use with natural gas and if we choose to use the Lister Type as part of a co-gen system, I think emissions must be measured at the end of the co-gen tail pipe.   


Do know that there was a container load of slow speed Listeroids brought into the USA with EPA knowledge according to the importer and and the stated use was for COGEN.


The cleanest method of import is likely as parts, once the Cogen plant is built, you need test emissions and make sure it conforms with the EPA emissions. 


I think the co-gen plants offer exciting  possibilities for our DIYer group, when you look at our core, you see that we are interested in low emissions and greater efficiency, out power plants often make use of solar, wind, and and biofuels, and this is totally compatible with direction the EPA is being directed at the moment.


Bottom line.. remember, a ruling is only good for the moment!  As we see our country continue to grow the numbers who will regulate our efforts to contribute to the GNP, we must stay focused on the potential rewards for being more independent. I received an email from Oz last night, those who are part of the great flood and without the mains; but had their own power plants ready to go are feeling good about their investments. There are Dairyman who were prepared, and are now milking cows, and of course, there are those who can’t… 


It reminds me of a picture once received from a Texan who sen me a picture of his wife hugging his DIY generator plant.. they were making ice for neighbors after a hurricane.. the AC was on in a sweltering heat.


before I close, we must all realize there are posts all over the Internet made by the uninformed, shysters of every sort, and in at least a few cases the insane.  There are those who will offer you a generator that makes it’s own power, they’ll sell you parts to correct problems that don’t exist. wasn’t their plans on ebay to build a time machine? It always been a good idea to do your own thinking, but I suggest it’s getting worse. We’ve always had the insane available for counsel, but we need remember they are in the ranks who attempt to make policy as well.     


George B.    


















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2 Responses to ?Can a US Citizen Legally Own a new Indian clone? Question of the day

  1. Paul Martoccia says:

    “Bottom line.. remember, a ruling is only good for the moment! ”
    You are so right sir! Cut and paste this tiny url

    • George B. says:

      Paul, great find!
      I really do expect one out of five Americans will be working for the EPA in the future, we’ll need to have some pretty fair productivity from those who contribute to the GNP in order to pay their wages 🙂

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