Early this AM, I find this in the mail box. I share it because this is at the root of all promises to deliver a free lunch!
Name: Forrest
Email: jetkrazee@xxx.xxx
Subject: PMG questions
Message: Hi, I wondered if you could answer a couple questions. Im a DIY’er but don’t have a ton of electrical schooling, mostly trial-n-error. I want to know how many hp would it take to spin a 25kw PMG and get at least 12KW usable power. Is this even possible? I have seen modified generators that power there drive motor. Also, can the 3phase ac voltage from a PMG be ran through a line/hz stabalizer and used for reliable home-use power source?
Regards, Forrest
……………………………….
Forrest I’m glad you wrote, and I ‘d like to share that there are no PMGs on the planet powered by an electric motor, powered by the PMG. There is an easy way to remember how reality works in electrical and mechanical devices.
In order for a motor and Generator to run in a closed loop, you’d need a 100% efficient motor, and a 100% efficient generator, and then a perfect environment in which to run it.
Fact is, there’s always losses in these devices, and always will be. A typical car alternator is a (three phase generator), and due to the engineering criteria, some are about 60% efficient, maybe less. So, we expect the energy out of the device to be far less than what we put in. The motor side is similar, we NEVER get out what we put in, and where do the losses go? A portion of it can be felt as heat, and as you know, it takes energy to make heat.
In the physical world, we expect only losses, (no gains) we need dump far more energy into our machines than what we get out. You can (Always) assume that if you put 100 units of energy into a machine, you will get less than 100 units out.
As for the financial world, the same is true.. the US Government is a fine example of losses. No matter what you give them, you WILL get less back IF you MEASURE energy in VS energy out. The deception (confusion) comes into play when the Government runs a Ponzi, and some who put energy into the system get more out than they put in.
A generator paired with a motor is a great demonstrator of unsustainable losses. If you use an exterior source of energy to bring this combination up to speed, and then expect it to run, you get only disappointment out of the machine.
This is exactly the way Obama Health care will work. The fact is, there is no source of money so great as to cover the losses of the inefficiency of Government involvement.
Your second question about a three phase generator.. and frequency, the frequency is normally dictated by the RPM of the generator shaft, this is a mechanical thing. We can add some complication to the process in a second stage, but most anything we do adds additional losses, and we expect even less usable energy out than we put in.
Youtube is full of free energy videos, motor generator sets running in a loop. Fact is: They are all BS. There are no free rides in energy or finance, someone always pays. Votes are easily bought with the promise that the other guy is going to buy your lunch, eventually the guy buying your lunch leaves the game. It’s the way it works. There are no free lunches, but countless people who believe they can eat somebody elses lunch, but not for long.
Here in my State, a person I know worked all summer on a free lunch program. Her job was to help make 1500 lunches a day, and deliver them to 20 different sites to be distributed to children under 18 in the city of Kent, first come first serve.. It’s a new role the Kent School district is taking on, and at the other end of it is tax payers that may be having a hard time paying their ever-increasing property taxes, water, power, and utility bills.
George B.
George,
I love your site and feel that you are “right on” on virtually everything you write about, EXCEPT, “free energy”. Everything you say comports with current electrical and physics science. However, it appears clear to me that “accepted science” is far behind the current state of understanding in the realm of energy. I encourage you to do more homework on this subject before dismissing it out of hand. With that said, the “free energy” field has an ample number of charlatans, hawking any number of phony offers for any number of phony claims. This is no different than any other legitimate field of science and industry, including some of the less-than-desireable listeroids offered by disreputable manufacturers and dealers. The fact that “bad” listeroids do not perform as claimed, does not negate the value of well-built literoid engines.
I know that you are a big enough man to keep an open mind.
Alan
Alan.. thanks for your comment, but you’re wrong on this one.. “I’m not a big enough man” to ignore the basis for all of physics. One example of mis-understanding of free is Solar energy, as we note, our sun burns billions of tons of hydrogen, and we bask in it’s warmth. Solar PV is in no way free energy, fact is, the sun will eventually run out of fuel it inherited, and we must also add the cost of any device we might use to better utilize the temporary gift given to us. We humans live within the second hand’s tick of nature’s clock, It’s the reason we humans expect some sense of permanence I guess.
Alan, I’ll send off $100 for your example of any real free energy device.. and of course, we know such a device is capable of running in an environment absent of heat energy (absolute zero). It will be my pleasure to see you claim it first.
George,
Have you been following the research and development of Low Energy Nuclear Reaction (LENR). The basis of the most promising work from Andrea Rossi is a small reactor which reacts hydrogen and powdered nickel under several atmospheres of pressure to create anomalous amounts of heat energy. When put into a self sustaining mode it creates much more energy than is required to initiate the reaction. The science of Physics is scrambling to explain this apparently anomalous behavior. I submit that all that IS to be learned about physics has not YET been learned. What we don’t yet understand, holds the keys to a universe of knowledge that I predict will eclipse what is currently known about our physical world.
I appreciate your argument that nothing is “free”; all energy comes from somewhere. Some of the sources of energy are well known, while others are just now beginning to be explored and understood. The term “free” means different things to different people. For the sake of this discussion, lets define “free” as meaning, without additional cost, beyond the cost of the device necessary to collect or transform the energy into a form that is convenient for residential or industrial use. I think that this definition is in keeping with the generally accepted definition of “free energy”.
Andrea Rossi’s reactor fits this definition of “free energy”. It consumes much less grid power than it produces and does so at an amazingly low proposed inital capital outlay. Additionally, the cost of the elements required to “fuel” the reactor, is very modest, being only pennies per month for an average american household.
Getting back to your argument that even the Sun’s energy is limited; we can assume that if this technology becomes popular and is widely used, nickel will become more valuable than gold. That is, assuning that no other material can be fould to react in such an anomalous manner, producing as much excess heat energy.
Respectfully,
Alan Becker
Sorry, I’m with George on this. There is no free lunch. You can demonstrate seemingly odd reactions that nobody ever thought to put together before and leave out important details that make it seem to demonstrate free energy. The whole point of science to publish your entire setup and let someone independent achieve the exact same results somewhere else. Then you have something, but until then, it’s all BS. Not even knowing the reaction happening here, suspect things like unusually high pressure, seemingly exothermic reaction, need backed up by weights of material in the reaction before and after. How long does the reaction sustain? Days, weeks, months?
If it was that simple, wouldn’t we use it to power satellites? I mean if there is one application that would benefit from this, that seems to be it. You don’t think agencies spent millions of your hard earned tax dollars trying to find this solution?
Just by your post, you are not a critical thinker, you failed to ask the basic questions-proof that no material is lost or consumed, length of the reaction, why doesn’t it occur in nature, what work or experiment is this derived from that we changed a variable and found the miracle.
This has all the telltale scam clues. It starts with what should be a normal reaction but we put a twist on it (pressure). This seemingly odd but simple device now performs a miracle. We don’t talk about how-it’s unknown what’s happening. Ignore science and bask in the miracle. It’s like a cookie cutter template and the “believers” fall for it every time. “A fool is soon parted with his money”.
Jet,
Snake oil is the top seller, has been for 6000 years, and even in hard times 🙂
Alan,
There’s a very sharp and distinct line we don’t cross if we expect our opinions to be respected by those who study energy. We don’t get to call it free energy if we think it’s near free.
An example.. I know an engineer that has a clock that has been running for 15 years, it winds itself with temperature changes, and atmospheric pressure changes. Novel, but no wheres near free energy..
My first rule.. you need figure the cost of the machine when you figure a cost of KWHs produced. Same as you do with the cost of driving a mile in your auto.. you need figure the cost of the vehicle, insurance, license tabs, maintenance, and more less it is your goal to deceive yourself. Even the IRS agrees.
George
George,
I’m not clear what you are niggling about, is it new energy sources, or the definition of “free energy”? I thought the conversation was about new, low-cost, energy sources, like LENR that I mentioned earlier. http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-02/27/rossi-roundup?page=all
Alan
George,
I will gratiously accept your apology if you’re willing to offer it.
I hope you’re not a flat-earther.
http://climate.nasa.gov/news/864?goback=.gmp_4132340.gde_4132340_member_214671553
Alan, I am pro Nuke…always have been. I believe that the Fuk Nuke was old machine.. poorly designed for stationary use and at the very end of it’s life. But still…. it met or exceeded EVERY design requirement… period!
If humans want a machine to perform at a higher level, they need define the requirement before it’s built. If you want a power plant that will take a direct atomic bomb hit.. you NEED define that requirement up front and pay for it.
There have been a number of nuke systems that would deliver safe power to small remote villages for years, some advertised more than 20 years ago if memory serves me, and many afraid to death of the fact that there’s a radiation risk involved and that the babies milk will glow in the dark.
Alan, is it possible that you and I just have a very different idea as to what free is?
Our President thinks raising the minimum wage creates wealth 🙂 something for free 🙂 An economist knows that raising the minimum is no more than a tax on everybody.
I envision my >current< government managing such a system as your link describes 🙂
There would be so many subsidies and palms greased in the process of building it, installing it, and inspecting it, that you'd need give an accounting company a year to unravel where all the money went.
I do think it is now the majority that think printing money makes free money, God forgive them.. and soon, people like Washington State's Senator Adam Kline might sign on to a bill that you must drink Hemlock if you even suggest it's not free.
If you rob somebody of $1000.00 of their hard earned money…it's still not free money.. it's just easy money (for you).
The nuke stuff has a life, it as installation costs and all costs need be identified and figured into the cost of producing the energy they produce.
There are a lot of companies that have gone broke selling stuff that is free to them, pit gravel as an example. Some had no idea how much money it took to deliver that free stuff to the customer 🙂
It's just a matter of time before humanity feels the pain of the very high cost of energy and all that it brings.. the death, dying, and disease is what I see coming, but I also see a class of elitists welcoming it, having the wisdom of God, they know it’s exactly what the planet needs.. a big reduction in the parasites that infest the planet. And as long as all the dead are piling up outside their view, it’s a viable solution.
It will be entertaining to watch Japan and Germany scurry to install appropriately built, safer nuke power plants, and those who protest loudly only need revisit the 1930s to know the pain and suffering just ahead..
Call if free all you want. We have an adopted alley cat we feed. He is a master at conserving energy, He’s at our door more often when it’s cold, as he knows where his internal heat comes from. If he thinks there’s a chance that the winter sun might shine through the clouds, he knows exactly where to lie in that pile of leaves. He waits in a curled up ball, and when the sun breaks, he lays stretched out to collect that heat through that jet black fur of his. But on days well clouded over, he makes an assessment. Is it worth the risk of burning the calories to leave my den, and walk over to where the sun might shine?
My cat knows more about energy and energy conservation than the President of the United states, he knows that nothing is free..
GB
Alan, Zach has been looking into this, and finally found the words to describe it.. he’s young yet, and I expect he’ll find better words soon.. Yes.. he asked how to spell it, and remembered!
If you profess to be even vaguely interested in exciting new energy sources, get your head out of the sand.
http://www.e-catworld.com/2012/08/niweek-starts-monday-lenr-to-be-featured/
Alan
i will leave watching the new so called technologies to you, i am too busy working with what i know works in an effort to improve the overall efficiencies.
there is plenty of meat left on that bone to keep me occupied for a very long time.
good luck!
bob g
Even if we take Rossi’s claims at face value, that’s not “free” energy. According to his description, it’s a nuclear reaction which consumes nickel and hydrogen fuel, and produces copper as a waste product. It’s no more “free” than any other nuclear reactor.
And it’s not even that efficient. According to his own numbers, last time I checked, the yield equates to a COP of around 6 (ie, six units of heat energy for every unit of electrical energy). That’s not much better than a conventional heat pump manages (although Rossi claims he can make higher temperatures than a heat pump is typically capable of).
In other words, not only is it not “free,” it’s not even much more efficient than current technology.
Flint,
Thanks for your comment here..
We now find ourselves living amongst people who question little or nothing. Hydrogen power for the masses is insane, but look at the billions of dollars it has moved from our pockets to other places! Politicians have learned that money is easy to liberate from the public purse with the mention of hydrogen research, and never has the public ever asked, what have we got for it? It’s all about the easy road and wanting to believe you’ve been cheated and screwed out of the easy life. I still say the same people who believe you can print wealth, believe you can create free energy. You and I know that if we are to capture moon beams in a jar, we must include the cost of the jar, and the effort to capture them.
When we see the interest in HHO generators, we should understand that democracies are in jeopardy, as they always have been. Useful idiots vote for magic. Those who spend hundreds of dollars on this junk never take the 5 minutes to study what they put into the system versus what they got out! They are a good source of revenue, you can offer them magic, and they would use the Baby’s milk money to buy it!
As a side note, I have been studying India’s history for the last week. The reason? They have a long history and much of it recorded. We in the West think that much of what they do is weird but what a marvelous country, and so much to learn from their history. NO wonder many educated Indians have so little praise for Rajendra Pachauri. Indian history records a lot of climate change, where great cities once stood, and having an abundance of food and water.. then abandoned as the climate changed to the point of becoming arid. Perhaps it’s part of nature’s plan?
Indians have seen this all before, they (who have studied history) are not so easy to BS. While many in the WEST think religion is the source of most troubles, many Indians know that the most dangerous of men are Godless.
Not sure how I missed your reply.
There are, indeed, many folks who think that “free” actually exists. One of my neighbors hired me to tow their dead truck to the scrap yard. So, they paid me to drive my truck to a rental place, rent a trailer, drive back to their place, pick up their dead truck, drive to the scrap yard, unload it, return the trailer, and drive home. Given that they’re friends, I only charged them the actual operating cost. So, they netted about $300.
Next, they ask me to do it again. This time, they borrowed a box trailer from another neighbor, and had collected a bit of scrap metal, themselves. So, they had spent a lot of hours over the course of several weeks driving around getting any “free” scrap that was listed on CraigsList, if it was small enough to fit in their car. Had the whole trailer filled with aluminum siding and the like. Net to them, after they paid for my fuel, was about $50. After paying their own fuel from driving around for all that scrap, they lost about $20 on the deal, plus hours of time.
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is…
On a separate note, any news on Listeroids getting into the US again? I’ve heard of a few companies selling them, but I thought the import ban was still in effect?
Nice example of free Flint..
I don’t understand why so many people believe that one can get energy out of nothing. Is our educational system so bad. Well i can answer my own question, people who believe in astrology, water has memory, ghosts and all such crap are the reasons people belief in this crazy stuff.
Richard, it’s OK they believe, it’s not OK they vote based on what they believe.
that’s what I think. And the scary part.. this has little to do with IQ, more to do with an inability to apply critical thought. I honestly believe the root cause is something we might call the ‘Peter Pan Syndrome’, people want to believe so badly they will set aside critical thought.
Rich.. what you and I know is any example of a ‘gain’ can be used in a chain to create more energy than there ever was or will be 🙂
Hi George, I don’t mind explaining to folks who are clueless about physics and the laws of thermodynamics about the futility of free energy. However, I’ve become so exasperated with dealing with diehard debaters that I quit wasting my time. I simply state, “Prove it!”. I’m a hard core DIYer. We produce most of our food and energy on the homestead. We’ve built all of our own shelter and support structures. We pump; store and filter our own water. We provide transport in mostly EMP proof vehicles and alt energy. We do all of this according to commonsense and the laws of nature. We probably break umpteen laws of man per day. We are so… out of the conventional loop. We like pay as you go. I like to over engineer structurally using recycled and inexpensive as possible quality materials. I do consulting and tours by appointment. Inevitably, there will be someone completely blown away at what they are seeing. Yet, they will still offer me advice such as…”You know, this is great! …but it looks like so much work. Why aren’t you using such and such free energy device or one of them 100 mpg+ carbureters, etc.”. I reply, For the same reason that you don’t. They then retreat in their non EMP proof SUV; stop for fuel which they pay for with a credit card and curse the oil companies.
I love your site. We don’t blow smoke. We just Do It!
Vertis, there’s really only one thing you own, and that’s your reputation, and there is no certainty you will see even a portion of tomorrow.
I believe ethical behavior has always been important to you. Not likely that you will ever be part of some scam operation, nor that the Department of Energy will be giving you a $15 million dollar research grant anytime soon 🙂
As I said before, there’s plenty of money to be made.. just sell the impossible dream, you’ll have more fish on the hook than you can rip off.
That recent post I made about firepower.. It was a big product in Australia, and even promoted by the Prime Minister John Howard. As Keef points out. Those who get ripped off, are more likely to believe the story the scam artist makes up, than those of us who would point out the errors. I am currently watching a train wreck too close too me. A person who bought into a losing proposition, and his rescue has been executed! Yes, he has bought into an even bigger loser.
Here’s what he told me.. “Hey I want to run something by you, I’ve joined the XYZ franchise, and I want your input.. “oh yes, I did already drink the coolaide, I’ve alreay bought in.” to this I answer… “sounds more like you want a vicitm not advice.” This (in my mind) is an example of a man who wants to believe so badly (the Peter Pan syndrome). It gives merit to what you say.. at some point you don’t waste your time. but Vertis, I want these pages as part of my journey.
I did stumble over this same generator motor loop thing when I was a boy.. My Dad was born in 1919, and in a small school in Broadus Montana, he learned enough in an intro physics class to explain to me why my boyhood idea wounld’t work! It’s frightening how poor our education system is today. But then.. we need note who some of the teachers are, and how tirelessly they work to sell the impossible dream!
The impossible dream..
Here’s an example https://www.utterpower.com/kari-norgaard-sure-i-have-respect-for-women-but-not-this-one/
I will always associate Kari with the dillusional idea we humans need a sense of permenence. I think that might be part of our problem! We somehow think we have an unlimited amount of time to get down to business.
Hi George
I think you might be jumping to conclusions here.
I think the question asked by your original poster was simply a question regarding size of (petrol, diesel ?) generator to drive a certain size Permanent Magnet Generator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_magnet_synchronous_generator
Nothing wacky there.
answer is 1 Hp = 746 Watts
Conversion efficiency about 85%
Not sure why you would want to run an oversized generator (unless you happen to have one lying around) but ball park would be that to get 12Kw output you’d need about 20 Hp
As to the rest of the rant about “free energy from magnet power” and all that tosh…..
Well, don’t get me started!
http://www.nmsr.org/denislee.htm
There should be a LAW against it, but that would only encourage the “free energy is suppressed” brigade.
Regards, whoo hoos etc.
from Keef
Keef, I appreciate your comment..
Forrest lays it out ” I have seen modified generators that power there drive motor.”
Utterpower and friends are tipped off when we see that..
Thanks to the over unity nuts, there are several posts out there that mention the utterpower PMG as a device that should be considered to build such a device. for that reason, I get requests, and I do post here to be provocative at times. Considering a lot of factors, especially the mix of loads, and expecting some inductive loads, I noramally stick with the 2HP per KW rule of thumb (P=ExIxPF).
But now we’re slicing haris between your rule of thumb and mine..
George
I don’t see why people plan unworkable over unity devices with
complex moving parts like motors, generators, belts and pullies.
You could have a solid state unworkable over unity device for much
less hassle. You would only need to plug a battery charger into
the output of an inverter and have the charger charge the batteries
that power the inverter. Since the charger and inverter would each
be about 80% efficient and the transmission loss only a few percent
at most, this would be a failure that is not nearly as blatant as the spinning kind. And many people have enough stuff on hand to plug this
together in 5 minutes.
Wow my formatting is messed up. Typing on phone.
I reply late Bill… excellent point.. keep it all electronic to reduces the losses.. and pray that they grow to be gains 🙂
George
we all know of crystal set radios, and those of us that have made them realize just how finicky they can be to make work. this is about as close to a free energy machine as it comes, even though technically it is not anywhere like a free energy anything having to take its power from the transmitter to power itself.
my point? most folks that hawk this crap have never really sat down and tried to measure anything! never say up a decent experiment using anything approaching scientific methodology, which means they have no clue as to all the various factors that go into skewing results all over the place.
“if” there existed a perfect motor 100% efficient, and “if” there was a perfect generator 100% efficient, one would find that he is only part way there! you still need perfect conductors to connect the two
and also a perfect mechanical drive system… for crying out loud…
there is nothing in nature, that is perfect! nothing certainly made by man! nothing, nada, zip! let alone 4 major parts of such a system all being perfect…. but lets not stop there
in order to prove such a system, one would not only need all 4 perfect parts, but then he would have to connect them and prove it all works, and that is where i am going with all this!
in testing there will always be something else unforeseen that pops up and throws a wrench in the works, it never fails to happen, and to think that an endeavor such as this is immune to such is just delusional in my opinion.
if those that support this perpetual motion/free energy crap, would stop for a moment and accept certain realities relating to the laws of physic’s as being carved in stone, and then spend even 10% of their time and brain power in the pursuit of doing some real work toward improving systems they would find something much more productive and learn a lot in the process.
to promote perpetual motion/free energy is just a cop out, easy/lazy approach to anything relating to making power. far easier to not think, not apply reasonable thinking if not critical thinking skills, than to actually do some reading and research, learn about the laws of physics, learn about scientific method and how to apply it, build something useful and then set about performing tests, documenting and publishing accurate results that can be verified…
we never see that when it come to perpetual motion/free energy, we see claims, hype, lies and distortions, but we never see anything approaching real science. to full disclosure, not documentation, no publication, nothing that would make it so it could be independently verified elsewhere…
why would that be? because it is bullcrap from the start, smells through and through and in many cases boarders on criminal and in the best light just plain ignorant.
bob g
Sorry to pull the discussion further, but the whole free energy thing has just got me thinking.
Is it that DIY people see the fraud and we are mad that they do that to the weak, lame and lazy, or is it that we are mad we didn’t think of the scam first?
Or maybe, it’s that we don’t prey on people, provide for ourselves and are upset with those who do engage in these activities?
Or are we mad at ourselves because we could come up with some really impressive scams, but we have that thing called a conscience?
Just food for thought for those who feel strongly.
interesting that you bring up this question, and i will answer it as it pertains to my thoughts on the subject
what pisses me off no end are the results of these blatant scams and and those that support them, either directly or indirectly because they are too lazy to actually do the work to educate themselves.
when people fall prey to these scams, it sets the “real” and “good” work done by good people back another generation.
case in point, (i think George will let me borrow this) was the GM 5.7liter diesel that came out back in the 70’s. it was promoted as being the answer to the pain at the pump with opec raising prices, the reality was it ended up being a major failure for all sorts of reasons..
another was the cadillac 4/6/8 cylinder switching of the 368cu/in v8 of ’83, it was supposed to be all that and a big bag of chips, it turned out like the 5.7 to be a big bag of bufallo chips!
the 5.7 set the whole automotive diesel back in the country another generation (about 20 years) before folks would try to accept what detroit offered in diesel power.
we now have a myriad of small wind generators sold by those either without a clue, delusional, or just plain crooks, most based on rewound delco 10si alternator with pm magnet rotor making huge claims of power generation in winds as low as 4mph! the reality is they won’t light an led at 4mph and would have to be strangled by a cat 5 tornado to produce full rated power… folks buy into the crap and get burned, the result is those in the industry that are building quality machines get painted with the same stench that pervades those hawking this crap…
it isn’t just small no name companies that are doing the damage, it is companies like honeywell and coleman that have loaned their names to products that are likely no better than some joker in arkansas built based on the delco pm conversion.
The result is the same, folks get burned, the industry gets damaged and another 20 plus years will have to pass before the public will forget enough of the bad smell and taste to give it a whirl again.
When we allow crap to be promoted as something good, we damage the industry related to that product. that damage not only sets back the industry as a whole, but also causes in some cases good companies not to be able to thrive, they close and folks lose their jobs.
Having said that, thankfully the perpetual motion/free energy thing has not directly linked itself to diesel, wind, or solar power … at least not yet, but the mechanisms that are used to promote this bullcrap are used universally and the mindset that promotes, supports and believes in a free lunch allows these guys to not only survive but continue to damage everyone.
Am i envious because they thought up the scam before i did? Not at all, most of this crap i thought of as a child, then i started to study, learned of the folly, and grew up!
(key words here: study, learned, grew up)
To foist a scam is easy, to support it is at best lazy, however
it takes a bit more work to learn how to do something that is useful. In the long run those that put in the time to make things that are useful, generally do very well, while the others? they don’t generally do so well.
bob g
jet,
money is easy to get, if you can live with the fact you screwed a lot of people to get it. There is a large class of people who desparately want to believe they were screwed out of an easy life..selling a book titled ‘how you were screwed out of a free energy future’ would sell,,
by passing the power meter is free energy to you, but a loss to the stock holders of the power company stock..
been giving this topic more thinking, and here is the result
a man, corporation, organization or any other sort of entity has nothing but its word, and is given a certain level of grace manifested as integrity or credibility.
once lost it is very hard to recover, once you use up that first grace you end up having to go to extraordinary lengths to regain what which was first granted to you so freely.
this is why one/corporation/organization or other entity ought not be so quick to buy in or blindly support an assertion without doing due diligence in study, research, and reproducing the results of those that make bold claims. if this does not take place then not only the one that makes the bold assertion but everyone associated with its support will, (should it be found to be flawed or blatantly false), end up losing their credibility too.
basically guilt by association.
right, wrong or indifferent, that is the way it is.
when as a young man, i bought into the global cooling rage, i was convinced that we were all going to freeze to death… where did that get me? i lost what little credibility i had as a young man, however being young, one is granted a strike or two… as i have gotten older
and having used up a couple strikes i am not so quick to swing my bat at some claim that i cannot verify from a variety of sources, find and read research papers, and work out mathematical proofs for.
to those that make bold assertions, equally bold support is demanded of, and that is how it should be. it is not incumbent on me
or anyone else to prove or disprove someone else’s assertions, it is incumbent upon them to provide the proof.
so far i see lots of wild claims and no proof of anything.
bob g
Bob… one that I love to hear discussed by people with the ‘Pater Pan Syndrome’ is Secret Patents, how they are bought up by the oil companies..Bwaaah! They prove they have no concept of what a patent is! And then they go on to talk about secret patents bought up years ago.. like the 200mpg carb.. it’s seesm they have no clue that patents expire and then all of us have use of the idea! Nore do they seem to know that to patent is to share the idea, and make it public!
Free energy, critical thinking, corruption, and fraud, it all seems to circle the topic ‘free Energy’ same as water circles the drain when you pull the plug in the bottom of the bath tub. Thanks to government officials who would sell the country or their very souls to get reelected… the Alternative Energy pond is teaming with sharks and corruption. And our so called servant Harry Reid tells us he’s now a Multi-Multlie Millionaire because of his ability to pick good investments! Pull your pant legs up folks. Then he asks Romney to lay out 20 years of tax filings, refusing to do the same, and scolding others who would request the same of President Obama as per his near magic ability to get advanced diplomas, and be totally unknow by all his classmates at Columbia! We the American public are screwed daily… because we are so easy.
None are so easily screwed than those that so badly want to believe.
glad you mentioned the 200mpg carb, we have always heard the urban myth that went something like “this guy built this carb and it would do 200mpg, and a big oil company bought the patent, buried it, and killed the guy!”
always some twist of the same song, over and over again…
while on the carb story,
one rainy tacoma saturday i happened to be at the tacoma public library main branch, waiting on one of my daughters to find some book on something for school… i spent my time down the technical areas and happened to stumble up… wait for it!…. wait… i found the book written by the man who built the 200mpg carburetor which included the patent papers and original drawings! wow i thought, it does exist! it is not just an old wild story told over and over again by highschool boys!
anyway, i took the time to read the book, wasn’t very long, and also look over the patent, and the drawings,, i concluded exactly what the author/inventer did some 50 plus years earlier….
yes it would work, and it might get over 100mpg on a very good day, with a tailwind, down a moderate grade, on a very aerodynamic car, with the tires overinflated, if you hold your tongue just right…
bottom line he concluded correctly that there would be no commercial application for his carburetor because the mix was so damn lean the engine could not make enough power to get out of its own way! it was horribly cold blooded even on a hot day, nearly impossible to start, and would take a then standard 3 speed transmission car the better part of 5 miles to ease it up to 50mph!
which btw was the top speed he was able to document in his test car, the engine just wouldn’t make enough power to go any faster!
bottom line is there is only so many btu’s in a gallon of gas (as you, me, and nearly everyone that understands basic math knows) that, even with a super carburetor the engine will never be more than ~25% efficient, which of course means we are only going to get a quarter of the btu’s converted to useful work,,, now stretch those btu’s over 100 miles to get a number of btu’s per mile?
i think a rubber band motor likely would do as well!
if you are wondering why i am going on about all this, well my hope would be that it might spur someone that buys into the insanity of over unity into taking a few minutes to just think for themselves.
if we can cause even one person to stop supporting this crap and to think long enough to realize that this is nothing more than the foundation for so many problems in this world…. my cramping fingers would be worth it!
we got to work to convert them before they drink the koolaid and bind themselves to these idea’s like they are to a religion. Once the koolaid levels get high enough into their bloodstreams it will be too late, and they will defend the defenseless positions with rhetoric and ridicule because they can’t argue the facts.
bob g
325 pound cars about as wide as your hips, and sleek as a bullet can get great mileage. There’s room for your Ipod too… not much more..